New Model 12 finding the lands question

[Cornbread]

One trick I found with the Hornady tool to keep from having the bullet jammed in the lands is to take a wooden dowel and insert from the muzzle and as you push the tool forward and feel the bulet contact the lands push the dowel rod forward. You can actually push back and forth with each and you can tell when it's kissing the lands. The point about using the Hornady case versus a fireformed case is valid. You should measure each and take that into account or drill and tap a fire formed case. Hornady will do it for you for a small fee. The thread pitch on the tool is an oddball.

[OLEJOE]

"The point about using the Hornady case versus a fireformed case is valid. You should measure each and take that into account or drill and tap a fire formed case. Hornady will do it for you for a small fee. The thread pitch on the tool is an oddball." (Cornbread)
Exactly. I measure my fire formed cases against the modified case to determine the amount to add. My chamber has .020 more distance to the lands than the barrels I chambered with my Manson .199 reamer. I have read where Savage had problems in the past with short chambers, but it could have been because of a reamer being sharpened too many times.

[russellc]

Earlier today I got around to trying the method of finding the lands shown in the video. I previously used the Hornady tools, and once developing a touch for it felt it was good to go. I began an intensive measuring methodology, and noted some oddities with the Hornady method, if not performed carefully. Going to the Hornady sight, I read their notes and instructions, particularly the suggestion of very carefully poking a wooden dowel in the muzzle and sandwiching the bullet between the Hornady setup and the wooden dowel. This helps get a good feeling for when the bullet is just touching the lands, slightly into the lands, and fairly jammed into the lands.

Where the oddities began was repeating the measurements having gently pushed the bullet in until it just stops, no real force at all. Just feeling the resistance begin. This gave way too short of measurements. with Oal on the bullet at 2.55 (when it got down to the nitty gritty, OAL was not the method, I used the bullet comparator that allegedly sits on the ogive of the bullet.)....I knew this was short. The bullet, used over and over here was the 69 grain SMK, the gun my Savage 12FV in .223. Reading others techniques with the Hornady devices, my own methods and the notes on the hornady sight I got all sorts of results. I usually just tap it slightly with a finger, and this is what Hornadys notes say. If carefully done, it was fairly repeatable, but prone to show short. Others I have read tap it with a small spoon. or give it a reasonable push, etc.

These methods tended to result in measurements that ranged from similar to the finger tap, to way too long. Stiff pushes and fairly good tapping resulted in OAL as much as 2.3200! More reasonable tapping resulted in 2.3000. My own personal method resulted, or just a little shorter, mostly 2.285, to slightly more or slightly less. Once I did get 2.300...again, I measured with the ogive method first, then removed the insert, rezeroed, and measured OAL to compare.

I decided to see if the video method shown earlier would work with the far less expensive Savage action. Reading about it and watching a few other videos there was conflicting info on what needed to be removed. I figured the ejector would need to go, but I wasnt sure about the extractor. I didnt see how it would push, but I feared the bullet, if even slightly stuffed into the lands, might pull the round longer on extraction. This occurred on some of the above testing at the too long measurements using a dummy round to test...same SMK bullet, but a new Winchester brass instead of the modified Hornady unit.

I began by taking apart the bolt. I removed the ejector, and figured the firing pin would not interfere if in the cocked (retracted) position. I was wrong, or I was right about the inability of the Savage action to replicate the video method's "loose bolt." Took the bolt back out, removed the firing pin assembly, reassembled and low and behold, I had the "loose bolt" shown in the video. Raising the bolt handle resulted in only an ever so slight lag. For this method, I made a dummy round from a brand new Winchester case, and a 69 grain SMK bullet.

I went through 13 steps total. Why 13? well on the 12th step when I was reducing by 1/2 of a thousandth of an inch (per video) I screwed up and over did the reduction by1.5 thousandths. At this length, the bolt raised without resistance, but I couldnt help but wonder if I passed up the sweet spot. Using the bullet Comparator to test with, I was getting 1.8895. The over step went to 1.8880, and I corrected to 1.8890, which measured 2.275 total OAL.

This is close to where I was with the Hornady method, but this was a more definite end point using this method. If nothing else, it sure gave me a good feel for what the force level gives the closest actual result when using the Hornady device with the modified brass.. Plus, I was dead wrong that the Savage action wasnt sufficient to allow the fine "feel" required. Dead wrong. The firing pin does need to be removed, its spring preloads the bolts feel on lift, making the test impossible.

If you have used the Hornady method like I do, this is worth while either as a replacement method, or to give you a real world feel for how ti implement it accurately.

Hope this helps someone,

Russellc