Savage 10fcp .308 reloads bolt not closing

[Kenstaroni]

I recently picked up a Savage 10FCP HS Precision. I've had a couple model 10's before and since I got into reloading a little while ago I gave up my FNAR to get a Savage in hopes of utlizing my handloads better. I took the rifle to the range today for the first time. I ran 20 rounds of Remington through it as part of a barrel break in. I then went to load one of my hand loads and the bolt wouldn't close. I got home tonight and reduced the OAL down to a rediculus 2.70 and it still wouldn't close.

I checked a sized case to make sure the case would chamber at it was just fine. I can't figure out why they won't load properly as they are well under OAL specs I've read that other people shoot out of the same rifle.

Any help would be appreciated as I'm kinda frustrated right now and wondering if I made the right choice to give up the .75 MOA FNAR...lol

Here's the load...

43.5 Varget
168gr HPBT Hornady A-Max
2.810 OAL (what I tried first)

A

[tammons]

Sounds like you need to bump the shoulder back but since you said you tried a case and it chambered thats probably not it.

Did you check the brass length and trim the necks ??

I am assuming a go-gage will chamber. I would check that first.

[Kenstaroni]

It's once fired brass, and I did not do any neck trimming. I decided to muscle the bolt down and it went down and ejected properly. Took a little force but nothing I wasn't comfortable with. I tried another round at 2.800 OAL and it chambered with little resistance at all. I tried several other's and got the same result. I am noticing a tiny bit of rub marks on the bullet at it's widest point before the boat tail begins, not all the way around, but just a little. I would imagine it's hitting touching the chamber instead of sitting off a bit.

I'm not sure why putting some effort into pushing the bolt down on the first round has suddenly made them all chamber now...lol

[Kenstaroni]

I also sized a few of the cases from the ammo I shot today and chambered those with no issues at all. I had thought I might have a sizing issue, but since the cases are chambering this has got me puzzled. It seems to be ok for the most part now. It is requiring a tad bit more force to close the bolt than factory ammo does, but it's not like I'm bearing down on it or anything, it's just "tighter" feeling.

[tammons]

What bullet ??

Is it a new rifle ??

Maybe it has some carbon buildup in the freebore.

Is this 1X military brass ??

I would check the trim length just to be sure.

[Kenstaroni]

Bullet was Hornady A-Max 168gr HPBT. The rifle was brand new. It had 20 rounds through it when I first tried my reloads. Brass is Federal from Wally World once fired. I will check the length on the cases to see if they stretched. I did not see any indication that the shoulder of the case was pinched or deformed in the one's that I chambered.

[tammons]

Weird

I have run into a few problems like that over the years and they can be a real PIA.
The remington ammo will chamber so it must have something to do with your
reloads.

Maybe you could have a bad chamber ??
Its odd that you would have marks on one side of the bullet too.
That is why I thought carbon buildup, but that would not happen in 20 rounds.

Have you checked what the col where the lands are with that bullet, Via a hornady OAL length gage ??
Wondering if maybe you have a short throat rifle.

My 308 sporter has a lot of freebore.

[John Model 10]

I read this thread yesterday and my first thought was that it may be a sizing issue of your once fired brass (and it may very well be). However, I picked up a new Predator Hunter in .243, yesterday. I had already done up a few handloads for it, before it came in. Last night, I checked them for function (but have not fired the rifle yet) and I'm having a similar issue with them. I'll start a new thread with a more in depth description, but I thought I should mention it here, as well.

John

[ShaneG.]

Did some of your once fired cases come from a different rifle? I believe I have read savage sets barrels to minimum headspace and if your cases were fired in a another rifle it may have had more headspace and would move the shoulder forward more.

I ran into this with some cases that I picked up,some would chamber fine others would not,after getting gauges to measure the cases there would only be 1-2 thou difference between ones that would go fine and the tight ones.

I had to take some material off the top of a shellholder to get a few of them back to a good measurement to chamber properly.

It don't take much to go from fine bolt closing to WTH is wrong with this one.

If your seating to 2.800 or close your probably plenty clear of the lands.I think your problem is case shoulder if those cases were fired from your FNAR,being semiauto i'm sure the chamber would be looser than the bolt gun.

[mytwo60]

If these are once fired brass then you shouldn't be having any chambering issues. My guess is you probably only resized the neck, correct? Try and FL size the case and see what happens. If it is somewhat difficult to chamber still then lower the die a bit from the press.

Generally, you should not have a difficult time chambering until about the 3rd or 4th reloads. This is because the case shoulder AND neck are hardend and in some cases will be difficult to chamber even if you lower the die from the press. In this case you would need to anneal the shoulder/neck to make it more "softer" allowing the brass to resize w/o much effort.

Hope this helps....

[Warthog]

I had a similar problem with my reloads, on the same rifle. I would suggest taking a Sharpie Permanent Marker and marking the case shoulder, below the shoulder and bullet. Then try to chamber, eject and look for the wear marks (don't let it dry too much). You might not be bumping the shoulder back far enough, however in my case I found I was crimping too much. Most crimp dies push down as well as in, which can push the bottom of the shoulder out a little. It's hard to measure because a very small amount can be a problem in the Savage's tight chamber.

I backed out my crimp die and the ammo started to fit. Then I bought a Lee crimp die which uses a collet. The collet hits the shell plate and is pushed up into the die. The cartridge is then moving with the collet. The collet then reaches the taper in the die, and squeezes (crimps) the round. As the collet is moving with the cartridge, there is no downward pressure to push the shoulder out.

[Ben-in-WA]

I had a similar problem loading a 243 Win in a Tikka 595. I loaded new brass and shot it just fine. I reloaded it and the bolt was hard to close. At that point I started to trouble shoot.

I happened to have two sets of loading dies, one RCBS and one Lee. I sized some more once fired cases using each brand and had the same issue. I finally figured out that I wasn't screwing in the die enough into the press. I was using a RCBS rockchucked, which toggles at the bottom of the stroke when the ram is all the way up.

When I screwed in the dies only a little and got just a small toggle the bolt was hard to close. When I screwed in the die a little more and got more of a toggle the bolt would close on the case just fine. I figured that I had a minimum headspace rifle. And, savage law enforcement rifles are suppose to have a minimum headspace. Just a thought.

If you are having trouble with Lee dies, they will customize your die to your rifle if you send them the die and three cases. Not sure if there is a fee. Make sure to use a load that is near max if you do this so that the pressure fully enlarges the brass.

My $0.02

Ben

[308Sniper]

I have the same problem and have also noticed marks on the bullet just in front of the mouth of the case. I think the problem is in the concentricityof the load. I don't have a gauge to check it so I don't know if it is in the case or in the seating. I can notice a slight bit of wobble in the tip when I roll the cartridge on a flat surface. Most of my cartridges chamber fine, and they seem to be more concentric. I don't think it is in my chamber, because I have marked the cases and chambered them with different orientations and it always marks the bullet in the same location. All my rounds are trimmed, sized and seated to the same dimensions. Does this make sense?

[kschilling]

Ok.... Here is how I fixed my Savage Model 10's chambering issue. Full length size the cases and make sure you bump the shoulder back...... End of Issue.

I've seen no significant change in accuracy between next sizing and full length. Talk to some of the world's best Long Range F Class shooters and they only Full Length Resize. Being able to chamber a round smoothly with out any resistance is worth it's weight in gold!

[Son of the Gael]

Kschilling,

Exactly. If I am reading to OP correctly, his Savage worked fine with factory loads but the bolt would not close on reloads apparently made with brass fired in a FNAR. The AR almost certainly has a larger chamber than the Savage and brass fired in it will have to be full-length sized. I have the same issue when using brass fired in an M1A, it must be FL sized to use in my Savage.

[learjet]

I had a similar problem with my reloads, on the same rifle. I would suggest taking a Sharpie Permanent Marker and marking the case shoulder, below the shoulder and bullet. Then try to chamber, eject and look for the wear marks (don't let it dry too much). You might not be bumping the shoulder back far enough, however in my case I found I was crimping too much. Most crimp dies push down as well as in, which can push the bottom of the shoulder out a little. It's hard to measure because a very small amount can be a problem in the Savage's tight chamber.

I backed out my crimp die and the ammo started to fit. Then I bought a Lee crimp die which uses a collet. The collet hits the shell plate and is pushed up into the die. The cartridge is then moving with the collet. The collet then reaches the taper in the die, and squeezes (crimps) the round. As the collet is moving with the cartridge, there is no downward pressure to push the shoulder out.


yep....seen this a couple times recently

if sized cases chamber fine then your sizing die is set correctly. u could get a rcbs precision mic, or one of the comparator sets out there that clamp on ur calipers to check how far back ur pushing the shoulder during sizing. id size a few, make sure they all fit. if they do the problem is in your seating operation.

did u roll crimp ur loads for the FN?

be absolutely certain your not roll crimping these loads. its possible, w untrimmed cases, that some of the longer cases r engaging the crimp, and the shorter ones arent. or, all the rounds are getting crimped, but the crimp will be more severe on the longer cases. take one of your longest cases, run it up to the top of the press w ur seater die screwed way out. screw the seater die back in until u feel contact. this is where the crimp begins to engage. screw the die out 1/4 - 1/2 a turn, and lock the die down. seat a dummy or 2 to 2.700ish and see if they chamber easily. if u have a bullet puller disassemble ur dummy rounds. reseat the bullets, but leave them way long - just get them started in the case. chamber them and eject, and ull have a rough dimension of what OAL will set ur loaded rounds to the lands. once again, its best to measure these w some type of comparator, or the rcbs mic. try this at ur own risk, sometimes the bullets stick in the barrel, its never happened to me, but has to others.

edit: i wouldnt seat to the lands for initial load development - i prefer .020 or more off the lands to start. u can work from there.

what brand of dies do u have?