10MLII info

[pisgah]

Ever wonder why the 10MLII was discontinued?

http://portal.truvista.net/news/read/article/the_associated_press-gun_makers_exploding_rifle_leaves_trail_of_injured-ap/category/news

I never thought a muzzleloader for smokeless powder was a particularly good idea.

[parkj5]

black powder is higher pressure than smokeless.

[pisgah]

black powder is higher pressure than smokeless.

That's news to me, friend, and I suspect it's news to everyone else, too. From what source are you quoting this gem of knowledge?

[J.Baker]

black powder is higher pressure than smokeless.

Wrong.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/Black-Powder-vs-Smokeless-PowderbrThe-History-and-Characteristics-of-brGun-Powder-Types/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/11/02/black-vs-smokeless-powder/


Any firearm designed to be used with smokeless powder can shoot black powder without issue. That's not to say you can use any black powder or any amount of black powder you like, but rather a proper load of the appropriate type of black powder for the cartridge will offer much lower pressure than that of a smokeless load for that same cartridge.

In this case though the operating pressure is really irrelevant as the "weak link" is the sabot. Sabots can only withstand so much pressure before they fail and you get blow-by. Early on in the 10ML'II's live span guys tried to cheat this by using 28ga wad cups under the sabot/bullet combo as an additional seal. The other option was to purchase the good sabots that stood up to higher pressures to replace the usually cheaper ones that come with ML bullets from the manufacturers.

The article makes no mention of the type of bullets that were used. Conical bullets are a no-no in the 10ML-II. One MUST use a saboted bullet.

Knowing Savage tested the 10ML-II to destruction in multiple ways and knowing what it took to cause failures such as the one pictured in the article, I have a hard time believing this happened as a result of a normal loading.

The one thing that was always the big "IF" for me with smokeless in the 10ML-II was that unlike in a cartridge rifle, there is no case between the powder and barrel wall. How this might affect the steel of the barrel over time I don't know (I'm not a metallurgist), but that's the only difference between the 10ML-II and a standard centerfire rifle cartridge that produces much higher pressures than would be seen with 10ML-II smokeless loads.

[Overkill458]

NONE of the recommended Savage MLII loads broke 42kpsi. The majority were sub 35-37kpsi. Max load of N110 and a 300gr bullet was about the highest which is in that 40kpsi range. Under ideal conditions sabots start to have problems around 35kpsi but some can handle a bit more. In general N110 was pretty rough on any sabots with book loads and a 300gr bullet. A double powder load of N110 though could certainly bulge a MII barrel. A double load and 2 bullets could possibly make it fail.

You will never achieve those kinds of pressures with real black powder and a single sabot bullet load.