reloading advice

[PaddyD]

I'm not a pro or even a competitive shooter, except against myself. As a cheaper alternative when it comes to seating dies I like the Hornady Custom dies. They have that same floating bullet guide as some of the far more expensive competition dies do and I get really accurate ammo out of these dies. The bonus is they are under $40 AND Hornady throws in 100 bullets as a rebate off the selling price.

[big honkin jeep]

When reloading trying loads until you find the right one seems to be the key. No big trick to get to 1" with a hand loading kit provided a decent modern rifle in good condition. I always recommend a hand loading kit as the biggest accuracy improvement anyone can make to a rifle for the money spent. This being said, If you stop at 1" with a load in your rifle then your rifle will always be a 1" rifle. If you stop at 3/4" then the same applies. If you keep looking, then I have found most rifles I own have a magic combination, some easier to find than others.
With all this in mind, you can spend a heck of a lot more and get a lot less than a Lee Deluxe die set, Or even one of their starter kits.
It may take a little more patience to use some of the equipment like their powder scale which takes some time to settle after throwing a charge into the pan but it will indicate properly down to 1/20 of a grain. When used properly the Lee Precision equipment though inexpensive and often slower loads some darn fine ammo.
I used the deluxe die set to load my 116 hunting rifles best group of 10 rounds of 30-06 into .446 at 100 yards.
Not bad for an old flatback $400 factory hunting rig with a 3-9X40 VX2 and nothing done to it except a 3 screw trigger adjustment.
My 12BVSS consistently will hit a dime at 120 yards and has no problem doing it 10 times consecutively with ammo loaded with the Lee Deluxe die set. My 25-06 sporter with the 22" barrel bucks all what you read on the internet about a 25-06 "needing" a 26" barrel and has been slaying deer for over a decade putting one 110gr accubond after another into one ragged hole using ammo loaded with a Lee Deluxe die set. Heck even had a guy at the range try and trade me a Browning Gold Medallion for my old spray painted $300 flatback Savage beater after watching the hand loads being put into the 10 ring.
Needless to say in my opinion based on ammo I have loaded and tuned for my rifles you're barking up the wrong tree.

I have no affiliation or interest in Lee Precision except stellar results using their equipment.
Don't get discouraged if a combo that's lights out in another guys rifle doesn't work in yours just keep plugging away. When you find or sometimes even stumble onto the magic load you'll know it.

A lot of guys think accuracy is a question of money, I have found it doesn't take a pile of cash to shoot some very small groups. One of my favorite past times is taking a spray painted Savage sporter and some hand loads (loaded on Lee equipment) to the range and setting up next to big money loud talkers and tactifools. The fun usually begins the first time they peek at my targets after I've been listening to blah blah blah. Not all shooters are like this but the ones that are are easy enough to find. Excuses or rapidly packing up usually follows.

Good luck and I hope you find your magic loads easily and economically.
For casual shooting I dont think that dies will make nearly as much difference as load combos.

[Marine]

I have found full length sizing to be as accurate as neck sizing but I set the shoulder back just enough for not feeling any resistance when closing the bolt. I do use the Lee collet die because its easier and faster without using lube and the mess. I still FL size every 2 or 3 firings or the bolt gets tight. I follow Lee instructions and rotate the case 180 and size a 2nd time for consistency. I have an FV 22-250 26'' heavy barrel and can get 1/4'' groups as long as the brass isn't too old and virtually everything is under 1/2''. I have never annealed, though I should for longer useful case life. When using the collet die make sure to use a lot of force or bullet pull won't be consistent making accuracy poor. I also load .243, 6.5 CM and 300 WSM using the collet die and if I am careful with the charge and brass prep all will shoot under MOA. A good scale and a micrometer seating die will help a lot.

[yobuck]

I think you need to start by sitting down and having a conversation with yourself.
Are you trying to satisfy your own needs? or are you trying to do that, while also impressing others?
Nothing wrong with either, but both would require a different approach at least to some degree.
Todays factory guns are capable of better groups than most of us can shoot, at least consistently.
I use a good quality press, but just the very basic full length dies. I do believe straight loads are important,
but i don't feel i need worry much about that for the type shooting i do. So i just rotate the case a couple times as i seat the bullet.
I have the tools to turn necks and the ability to use them. But in a factory chamber it would be akin to using hi test gas in your Chevy.
If it makes you feel better then do it, but be carefull you don't ruin your brass as a result.
For a hunter, even a long range hunter, a one hole gun and shooter are nice, but not really necessary.
A 1 inch gun and shooter will do just fine. Don't forget, a few will be in the center, and it only takes one.
Best to get really good at having 2 in the air at the same time. lol

[Stumpkiller]

Most of my dies are entry level and I need to upgrade soon for .308 and .22-250. No point in pursuing accuracy with Lee or bottom line RCBS. I have a limited budget so does anyone have a suggestion for intermediate priced dies for these calibers? I am looking at Hornady New Dimension Match grade for .308 and don't really see anyone making "match grade for 22-250. I am not a competition shooter by any stretch just looking for sub-moa accuracy. Any suggestions?

Redding Premium Series 2-die has a .22-250. And Midway has it on sale right now.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101630674/redding-premium-series-2-die-set

They also carry the Redding Master Hunter (Match seating die) in .22-250

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/111250/redding-master-hunter-2-die-set




I like the plain 'ol Redding Deluxe 3-die sets. I just have to use calipers and patience to set the bullet seater for a batch. But them I hand measure my powder, too. I find reloading relaxing and don't

[yobuck]

Redding Premium Series 2-die has a .22-250. And Midway has it on sale right now.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101630674/redding-premium-series-2-die-set

They also carry the Redding Master Hunter (Match seating die) in .22-250

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/111250/redding-master-hunter-2-die-set




I like the plain 'ol Redding Deluxe 3-die sets. I just have to use calipers and patience to set the bullet seater for a batch. But them I hand measure my powder, too. I find reloading relaxing and don't

Question?
Have you ever observed while working up loads, that the shots with say 35 grains of carefully measured powder, impact the 100 yd target in the same place as the carefully measured loads with say 34.5 grains?
I think guns are a lot like people, some will work and some wont.
The ones that will are easy, and the ones that wont are best gotten rid of asap.
I also think it would be a good idea for everybody who is bent on getting the best accuracy from their gun, to visit a varmit class benchrest match.
Not implying that they aren't fussy about how they load, but very carefully metering the powder dosent seem to be most important.
In fact you might have a hard time finding a scale being used.

[rmkey]

I think you need to start by sitting down and having a conversation with yourself.
Are you trying to satisfy your own needs? or are you trying to do that, while also impressing others?
Nothing wrong with either, but both would require a different approach at least to some degree.
Todays factory guns are capable of better groups than most of us can shoot, at least consistently.
I use a good quality press, but just the very basic full length dies. I do believe straight loads are important,
but i don't feel i need worry much about that for the type shooting i do. So i just rotate the case a couple times as i seat the bullet.
I have the tools to turn necks and the ability to use them. But in a factory chamber it would be akin to using hi test gas in your Chevy.
If it makes you feel better then do it, but be carefull you don't ruin your brass as a result.
For a hunter, even a long range hunter, a one hole gun and shooter are nice, but not really necessary.
A 1 inch gun and shooter will do just fine. Don't forget, a few will be in the center, and it only takes one.
Best to get really good at having 2 in the air at the same time. lol

I have talks with myself all the time and sometimes I don’t answer cause I don’t know. I have one year of reloading experience forty times. I am now retired and looking for something to do so I began reading how competition shooters reload.
Finally I have all the mics, concentricity gauges, neck turning, etc.
I am not trying to impress anyone in fact I am seeking advice from experienced shooters. I have 3 Savages, a 22-250, 260, 308. I do not hunt I only target shoot. My rifles were grouping around 1 moa or better but I thought that I would learn how to make my rounds more consistent in hopes of doing better. I have reached my self imposed goal of 0.5 moa with the 260. I haven’t got to the 308 yet but am working on the 22-250. I have Lee collet dies and Forester bushing neck bump. I have not used the Forrester yet as I have been doing case prep.
I want to exhaust every variable I can to make the best ammo. If the rifle still will not produce 0.5 moa then the problem is the rifle.
I use a lead sled to eliminate
error from my shooting. Once I see the gun still won’t produce 1/2 moa then I will replace the barrel with a Shilen in 6mm Br or 6.5x47 lapua. I suspect the 22-250 barrel is the problem as it is a 1:14 twist with a long freebore mandating the use of short light bullets making it impossible to seat to the lands, actually there is quite a bit of jump. But I understand some rifles shoot well with even minimum COAL. Hence my effort to produce the best possible reloads.


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[Stumpkiller]

"I have one year of reloading experience forty times."

I love that. May have to borrow it for myself.

I remember sitting with a board on the floor of my bedroom loading for a DCM .30-40 Krag that was handed down (still have it) with the old Lee Loader and a mallet. DuPont 4064 powder and a plastic scoop. I still smell it and when I hear the Beatle's Revolver Album it all comes back. By the time I got to Rubber Soul I had different ideas about what to get into my bedroom (and Chanel No.5 comes to my olfactory memory). ;-)

Load up some Sierra 52 gr HPBT (#1410) in your .22-250.

Years ago (1978ish) I had a Remington ADL in .222 Rem that I used to shoot at 100 yards in a little semi-official club league. At that time neck turning was the thing to do and there was more competition over inside or outside neck turning than the actual shooting. Even then the shooting was fun(?), but the reason, for me, was woodchuck hunting.

I just bought a .260 Savage myself, but it will be a whitetail hunting rifle that gets shot at targets in the summer and off-season (22" Sporter profile barrel & 3-9X magnification). But I will still want an accurate load because things don't get better in the field; and as much as you can get "at the bench" is a good start. I like reloading for itself and I hand-measure all powder charges and keep the logs for COAL so I can get good consistency in the reloads. Point being, a standard set of dies and careful practices will get you to 3/4 MOA with the right components; but that last few hundredths of an inch to 1/2 or 1/3 MOA may take twice as much effort. I believe that is called "The Law of Diminishing Returns."

Start with good cases, load carefully, change one thing at a time and shoot a lot to see what your rifle prefers.

[rmkey]

Question?
Have you ever observed while working up loads, that the shots with say 35 grains of carefully measured powder, impact the 100 yd target in the same place as the carefully measured loads with say 34.5 grains?
I think guns are a lot like people, some will work and some wont.
The ones that will are easy, and the ones that wont are best gotten rid of asap.
I also think it would be a good idea for everybody who is bent on getting the best accuracy from their gun, to visit a varmit class benchrest match.
Not implying that they aren't fussy about how they load, but very carefully metering the powder dosent seem to be most important.
In fact you might have a hard time finding a scale being used.

I agree completely about the powder. Measuring to the nth grain does not seem to matter. I just drop powder from the measure especially will ball or even short grain.
I think the type of powder matters and since H380 is a classic for 22-250 that’s what I have used thus far but I have a lot of others I can try. The most important things seem to be seating depth, possibly primer types, and straight concentric cartridges, and quality bullets and proper case prep or Lapua cases.
One other thing I haven’t tried is to vary the torque on the action screws. I just got a torque driver. Waiting for things to warm up. Too cold for me and the powder!


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[jim_k]

I agree with Marine. I just got some 6.5 CM dies from Lee yesterday. Since they arrived before my Redding body/shoulder die, I went ahead and loaded some rounds (these are for a friend's rifle, since I do not have a 6.5 CM). I used the Lee full length resizing die, and the Lee dead length bullet seater that came with the Deluxe Die set. The set also has a Lee factory crimping die and a Lee collet/mandrel neck sizing die, but I wanted to see what my runout would be with these faster basic dies. I loaded 10 once-fired rounds, and checked them with my NECO concentricity gauge. Most were about 0.001" total dial movement, and a few were almost 0.002" total dial movement. I wouldn't recommend spending money trying to get more concentric ammo.

[Savage11]

I find that sizing the case and then rotating the case 180 degrees and sizing it again helps to true the case, this also works with neck dies.
Starting out with a straight case neck usually helps accuracy, of course trim as needed etc.
PS, You can't go wrong with RCBS products.

[bythebook]

I have been loading for more calibers than i can remember over the last 53 years since started loading. I have shot 1000 yd. matches and finished 1 and 2 with my oldest son. I have shot in egg shoots from 200 to 250 yds. and did pretty well, I built my own guns for myself and my 2 Sons and loaded their ammo also. After trying 5 or 6 different presses dies and changing procedures over the years I have settled on a Bonanza CO-AX press, I use about 10 different brands of dies and my gauge for bullet con. is a bench in my shop I can roll them on the edge and watch the tip to see it is straight. There is a lot I have learned over the years, more than I can write here. If you use your head and think you do not need to spend a lot of money to get good quality ammo. I have shelfs full of equiptment I have tried over the years just gathering dust. The shooter makes the difference.

[bythebook]

Savage11 that is one of the many small things I have learned over years that makes a big difference.

[rmkey]

I don’t disagree that a lot of equipment isn’t necessary. Shooting is big business and business will try to convince you that you need their products. I read somewhere to watch what successful people do and do the same thing. I looked around for a book by an accomplished shooter and read what he did. The book was called Handloading for competition and I have learned a lot about case prep and components. I think some rifles are moa out of the box. My self imposed goal is to get my rifles to 1/2 moa. Not all shooters are capable of that and to be honest I am not sure I am so to take some error out of the equation I shoot with the rifle snugged up in Caldwell lead sled with 50 lbs of lead on solid ground under optimum conditions. I am absolutely certain that doing this I can shoot 1/2 moa. When I am satisfied with the rifle and the load then I will determine my ability with a bipod. Consistent handloads, the right barrel on a Savage should produce my goal with my 260 LRP.
I am replacing the stock barrel on my 22-250 1:14 with long freebore with a Shilen 1:8 for heavy bullets. The .308 is another matter. It is totally stock Savage. I will have to get a quality stock and go from there. If it does not get the accuracy I’m after I have heard the .30 BR is accurate with a quality barrel. 1 moa is good and 0.25 to 0.3 is extremely good so I am trying to achieve
.5 which should be reasonable. The only real barrier is money and convincing my wife how vitally important these goals are as my only competition is me.


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[SCdawg]

I love the Lee collet neck dies for no turn necks and still use the Lee seating die for my .223. Up until recently my only .223 guns were AR15's used for fun plinking so I had never bought a micrometer seating die. I recently put a .223 barrel on one of my bolt guns and was planning on buying a Forster or Redding micrometer seating die. After a couple of trips to the range I doubt I will bother replacing the Lee. Bullet concentricity was spot on with less than .001 runout for the majority. I have made up some dummy rounds then epoxied the bullets in place so I can change seating depth easily.

I do have a RCBS X full length sizing die for each caliber I load. Hard to beat that X die for FL sizing

[PaddyD]

Not really advice. At least not from me, but this is a VERY interesting article I stumbled on and in it some insights for developing ultra accurate loads in the .308.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

[Marine]

I agree with Marine. I just got some 6.5 CM dies from Lee yesterday. Since they arrived before my Redding body/shoulder die, I went ahead and loaded some rounds (these are for a friend's rifle, since I do not have a 6.5 CM). I used the Lee full length resizing die, and the Lee dead length bullet seater that came with the Deluxe Die set. The set also has a Lee factory crimping die and a Lee collet/mandrel neck sizing die, but I wanted to see what my runout would be with these faster basic dies. I loaded 10 once-fired rounds, and checked them with my NECO concentricity gauge. Most were about 0.001" total dial movement, and a few were almost 0.002" total dial movement. I wouldn't recommend spending money trying to get more concentric ammo.
Just a note Jim. I have found that using the little crimp die seems to help my groups. I set it with very light feel on the cam over and turn 1/16 repeat. My vel. sd are lower doing this. Test it on your best load and compare.

[Herby]

I have the bottom of the line RCBS setup and a completely stock Axis 7mm-08. Managed to get 1.18 inch average over 5 groups, 4 shots each. 4x scope. I was pretty pumped about that, one could do better sure but it is the best I have ever done.

[bigedp51]

I prefer Forster full length dies with the high mounted floating expanders that produce cases with very little neck runout.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac3iDJxDgxk


That being said one of the biggest causes of case neck runout happens when the expander is locked down off center. And the "cheep" Lee full length dies have a expander clamped and centered with the clamping collet.

https://i.imgur.com/QC9xK5D.jpg

And the reason so many reloaders use a body die and the Lee collet die is because they produce less neck runout than a bushing die. "BUT" so does the Forster full length benchrest dies, the neck of the case is held and centered in the die when the expander enters the case neck. And the 6.5 Guys stated they get less neck runout with the Forster dies than the Redding bushing dies.

https://i.imgur.com/Y7Iyv8o.jpg

And the less costly Forster benchrest seater dies hold the bullet and case in perfect alignment.

https://i.imgur.com/MomXeUI.gif



(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwjzsc3x_qriAhWp2FkKHX3eDdEQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uniquetek.com%2Fstore%2F69629 6%2Fuploaded%2FReloading-Seating-Die-Runout.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0PTrUzbIFGXpTquMkz6CtT)

[CFJunkie]

Sorry to be so late posting an answer for you but Forster makes a Ultra Micrometer Seater die for the .22-250 Rem.- part #U00031.

Lone Wolf's opinion that micrometer dies have no value may be correct for a reloader who doesn't load different bullet types of the same calibers during the same reloading session or who doesn't tune loads for a specific velocity and carefully monitor trim length variations in the brass. If you set your seating depth and never change it, you don't need a micrometer die.

Personally, I find micrometer dies very valuable when precision loading for my most accurate rifles,
I find it much easier and more accurate to turn the selector a set number of increments and get the desired seating depth when changing bullets in the midst of a loading session and tuning the seating depth to counter the minor differences in brass trim length.

I just don't have that delicate a touch using a screwdriver to set seating depth.

I load about 5,200 - 5,600 rounds a year and have micrometer dies for 4 calibers - three are Foster dies (one full turn = 0.025) in .308, .223 and .22-250.
The other is a Redding die for 6.5mm Creedmoor (one full turn = 0.050).

The lone Redding die was purchased when Forster didn't have a 6.5mm micrometer available when I needed one.
The Redding die is accurate and I have no concerns about using it but I prefer the Forster dies because the more space between each increment when making adjustments allows more accuracy when tuning settings for different bullets.