110 30-06 Misfire at moment of truth !

[Jimboshotinfoot]

Seems that you have a bit of experience with 110 bolt assemblys. I'm looking for a much fatter bolt handle for me 110FP in 30-06 circa 2001 production, non accutrigger (round top at front, flat top at rear if action) any suggestions please email me at jdaheyawhe93@gmail.com, as well as this forum, in case someone else needs this answer. Also, I've never dissected my bolt. I'm not sure if I want to try.how hard is it?

[J.Baker]

I have a feeling you're going to be disappointed when those parts show up. IIRC the firing pin and spring (and most every other part of the bolt assembly) are different between the pre 1964 and post 1964 guns.

[fnrockstar22]

If I were you I'd take the rifle out and set up a mock hunting scenario and see what happens. What I mean is take the rifle out in the same temps as a day of hunting and let it sit for however long you normally sit before getting a shot. Maybe whatever you use for lubrication is getting cold enough to slow the firing pin. That may be a long shot but it's possible and I like to try everything before buying parts. I've done that before and still had the same problem then later found some small detail was the problem all along.

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[ABL1111]

In my mind, and I'm no expert at all, just mechanically inclined, and I've listened and read a bit online, I see the issue being: bad ammo, pin or spring, head space ( which I have no idea what that means or if its something I can remedy or not, or, more internal things like sear etc ).

Although a smart trouble shooting idea, I doubt its the lube/ oil on the bolt/ pin, etc. I just cleaned all and lightly re-lubed prior to hunting. This year and last, I shot the deer pretty soon after getting into the woods - temp was 27 degrees - gun was stored inside prior, at room temp. Last year, temp was 40 degrees.

As of now, I'm waiting on a few things:

- the parts to come in and to compare.
- I sent Savage an email asking for the production year and parts list based on my serial #

The guy I talked to at Midway seemed very knowledgable and took the extra time to assure that he had selected the right pin/spring. When I spoke to Savage, to try to buy parts from them, prior to my Midway call, they said they no longer supported parts for this gun ( at least the bolt parts I asked about ). I tried Numrich prior to Midway and the woman in customer service could not help me select from the (4) different pins/ springs available.

I'm hoping Midway either has the stock on them or a line on making it like OEM.

Lastly, I agree about not buying parts without knowing first. But, there are NO gunsmiths around where I live. None. Long Island, NY. The last guy died suddenly last year and now there is nobody. A lot of tinkerers, but no one with deep experience and a machine shop...

[fnrockstar22]

Yeah I don't think those temps are low enough to cause lube to get sticky but figured I'd suggest the idea. I know how it is not to have a local gunsmith also. There are only 2 locally and the only one I've dealt with charged an arm and a leg for just checking the function on a pistol I had. I've thought about starting a gunsmith business but the tools are a little expensive just to get started.

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[big honkin jeep]

The difference you're seeing between the fired rounds and unfired rounds are from being fired. When fired the brass expands some to reduce rearward movement but the case still comes rearward under a lot of pressure with quite some force against the bolt face. This is most likely the cause of the difference in appearance of a deeper firing pin strike and some appearance of flattening.
Buy a box of fresh ammo and take a trip to the range. I'm fairly certain you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Heck you're gonna need it sooner or later anyway.

[ABL1111]

Just got the spring and firing pin - the pin is not the right one. It looks very similar but the overall length of the pin is shorter than mine ( not adjustable ) and although the fire pin 'head' itself looks similar ( I did not mic it ) the diameter of the rest of the pin, near the bolt head retaining pin, is much narrower than mine - MUCH - so it would be sloppy through my wider bolt head retaining pin. This one has to go back.

One thing I did notice ( I'm getting way to familiar and knowledgeable than I want ! ) is that my firing pin is scratched a bit where it would ride through my bolt head retaining pin. That could cause some loss of 'spring'.

If I can locate the parts, I think a new firing pin/spring and a bolt head retaining pin would be a smart maintenance R/R.

My firing pin, where it goes through the Bolt Head retaining pin ( if I type that part one more time !?!?!? ) is .1410. I'll be looking for that diameter firing pin shaft and BHRP...

[Robinhood]

Brother, I think you are barking up the wrong tree. If when you assemble your bolt and prior to putting the coking piece pin in, you put your thumb over the tail end and shack it and it moves freely in both directions and bottoms out you are good to go. Check your firing pin protrusion and if it is good you have 2 options. Make the ammo longer or the chamber shorter.


Verify headspace.

[ABL1111]

RH - I can shake it back and forth and the pin protrudes to spec. I don't want to bark or p*ss up the wrong tree - so thanks for the input. I hate troubleshooting anything by blind part replacement - that always wastes $ ( sometimes you get lucky, but I don't subscribe to that !)

Are you able to provide, or send me to where I can find excellent, descriptive directions as to how to check headspace. I have read a bit and know there are 'go and no go gauges' and a barrel wrench needed. Or, it can be done with scotch tape and used fired brass "FL " sized . What is FL sized ?

I think its smart to check the headspace anyway, especially if I don't have to change my current set up to do so ( would hate for it to be the ammo all along ). If the headspace is off, I can then make the necessary adjustments. If HS is OK, then I'm back to my firing pin/ spring and, or ammo.

Thoughts ?

[J.Baker]

FL sized = full length sized (as opposed to just neck sized).

[RustyShackle]

Not ideal, but.....you can use a piece of masking tape across the head of the cartridge. Add a piece and close bolt. Keep adding layers of tape until bolt doesn’t close. Report back with findings.

1 layer roughly equals GO
2 layers roughly equals FIELD
3 layers roughly NO GO

with anything there are lots of variances on products, masking tape isn’t a real precision product. But this should give you an idea of things are way out or close.

[ABL1111]

I think I did it right. I used a fired cartridge. I put one layer of 3M blue masking tape on firing pin side of casing and used razor blade to trim so the tape was perfectly covering the end of the casing. I put this cartridge in barrel and tried to close the bolt and it would not close - only when I pushed a little harder, would it close.

[RustyShackle]

Use a full length resized case, or unfired case. Unless the fired case came from a known good headsapced firearm.

[J.Baker]

I think I did it right. I used a fired cartridge. I put one layer of 3M blue masking tape on firing pin side of casing and used razor blade to trim so the tape was perfectly covering the end of the casing. I put this cartridge in barrel and tried to close the bolt and it would not close - only when I pushed a little harder, would it close.

And that's why you use a RESIZED case. A fired case is expanded so naturally it's not going to fit back into the chamber without some force. That's why rifles have primary extraction to help break the case free from the chamber. Also, do you have a set of calipers? If so, what's the thickness of the tape you're using? The difference between a go and no-go gauge is 0.0035". Most clear "Scotch"-type tape measures right at 0.002" thickness. I just checked three different types of painters tape I have here and they range from 0.003" to 0.006" in thickness depending on brand. If you don't know the thickness of your tape you're just chasing your tail.

[ABL1111]

Tape is .0050.

I used a live round ( hate doing that in the house ! )

Same results - will not close.

[Robinhood]

Try it with the round that failed to fire.

Do you understand what we are trying to determine with this test?

Where is Big ed. He's got pretty pictures and the energy to splain.

[1953greg]

my munny sez its the old ammo

[ABL1111]

I thought I understood until you ask if I understood :)

This test I just did was with the misfired bullet - which would be considered new, no ?

I thought the .0050 shows the space, or lack of, between a new bullet and the face of the bolt. It seems that my space is less than .0050, otherwise the bolt would have closed.

A spent round did the same thing as the misfired round - with the .0050 tape, the bolt would not close without some exertion

[ABL1111]

Any input gents ? Does my headspace sound OK based on the fact that a new bullet with .0050 of masking tape would not let the action close ?

[RustyShackle]

It sounds like your headspace is not an issue.