Imperial dry neck lube sucks

[JeepsAndGuns]

Just thought I would post up my recent experience with imperial dry neck lube.
I really liked the concept of a dry lube and not having the mess of a wet lube. I found this stuff after reading about it online and decided to give it a try. I bought the convenience pack with the pre charged media and the extra refill powder.
I dipped the case necks in the media and worked them around a bit and then proceeded to size some cases I had. They seemed to size with no issue. After sizing a few I noticed what happened. All the case necks were badly scratched. It looks like you took sand paper to them. I have neck sized hundreds of cases with this die without a single problem and no scratches.
I disassemble the die, clean it real good and reassemble. I then switched back to my normal lube and sized a few more cases. Now I get scratches on those cases. The dry lube has caused damage to my die!! Now my die scratches all my cases!! I am not happy about that, now I am going to have to either buy a new die or send it off to be repaired. This has got to be the worst neck lube I have ever used. Just thought I would let people know if they were thinking about using some.
In the picture, the ones on the right are after using the dry neck lube. The ones on the left are after cleaning the die, then switching back to my hornady unique lube. Like mentioned, I have sized hundreds of cases with the same die and lube. Now after sizing 20 cases with the dry lube, it is now scratched.
This is not isolated to this die and caliber. I recently bought a brand new neck sizer for 6.5x55. I bought it at the same time I bought the neck lube. I used this neck lube and sized 20 cases. I then noticed they were scratched badly. I immediately assumed it was the brand new die. I contact RCBS and they tell me to send it to them. I am still waiting to get it back (has only been a week). So with two different dies, two different calibers, both with the same problem and the only thing they have in common is the lube used, it has to be the lube.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4411/36626309853_e0315a03f4_b.jpg

[tcoz]

I don't really have an explanation for your problem but I've used Imperial dry neck lube for years and sized thousands of cases with it without ever having a problem. It's nothing more than powdered graphite which shouldn't in and of itself scratch cases or dies. I suspect there's something else going on with your dies. Keep us informed.

[bigedp51]

I have been using dry powdered graphite for neck lube since the mid 1970s and never had a problem caused by the graphite.

The most probable cause is the juncture of the neck and shoulder area of the die has not been polished enough and has small burs. This causes this rough part of the die to pick up embedded brass and you end up having brass rub on brass and scratch the case necks.

I wet tumble my brass with SS media that removes all the carbon inside the case neck. To replace the carbon I use dry powdered graphite and let the expander smear fresh carbon inside the neck.

https://i.imgur.com/CH3epH9.jpg

All you need to do is use the appropriate size shotgun cleaning mop and a drill to polish the die. I use JB Bore Paste, Flitz, automotive rubing compound etc. applied to the mop to polish the die.

I have had your problem many times when full length resizing and it happens for two reasons. The most common cause is dirt/grit imbedded inside the die or a rough die that needs more polishing.

A wet type lube allows the case to slide over many defects in the die, "BUT" a dry type lube allows the brass to rub/scrape the rough areas of the die.

Bottom line, the fine powdered graphite/carbon is not scratching your brass and the die is. Polish your dies, the dies are hardened and you can not hurt them even when using very fine sand paper. I have wet and dry sand paper from 400 grit to 3000 get for polishing stubborn dies or lapping shell holders.

When you have semi-autos that throws perfectly good brass away to land on the ground and pick up dirt and grit you end up with scratched dies. And wet tumbling with stainless steel media scrubs the brass free of anything that will scratch your dies.

[JeepsAndGuns]

All my brass gets cleaned and tumbled before sizing. I have never sized a dirty case.
I find it strange that I had no issues until I used the dry neck lube. The die never scratched the cases in the hundreds I sized with wet lube. I use dry lube once and now all the sudden it starts scratching my brass. I just can't help but think it is more than a coincidence.

[bigedp51]

Think of wet case lube like the oil in your car engine, it forms a barrier between the two moving parts and reduces friction. Meaning the two parts float on a thin film of oil and do not contact each other.

A dry lube does not have the same barrier the wet lubes has and you have more friction. The rough areas pickup brass and you then have brass rubbing on brass and scratched cases.

When I use standard oil type case lube with well used dies I will not scratch the case neck. But if I wipe the neck and shoulder and dip the case in graphite I will get neck scratches with poorly polished dies.

When the die is made a bur or rough area at the neck shoulder junction can scratch the case necks, Polish the die and remove the rough areas and your necks will not be scratched.

You are not the first person to have this happen and someone told me to polish my dies and my scratched necks disappeared.

This is very simple to prove, do not apply any type lube to your case necks when neck sizing only and you will still see scratches. Its not the graphite causing the problem, you have a rough die that needs polishing.

Polish your die and see what happens, I do not think Imperial dry lube has sand mixed with the graphite causing the problem.

[bigedp51]

Redding Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)
Scratched Cases: Causes and Cures

A problem that customers occasionally encounter while reloading, is that of cases being scratched in the reloading dies. There can be many reasons for this condition to occur, but they are usually traceable to the level of cleanliness of both the dies and the cases. Generally speaking, almost all instances of case scratching can be traced to foreign material that becomes imbedded in/or adheres to the inside surfaces of the die itself.

As a part of their final processing, Redding dies are cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner to remove any foreign material which may remain from the manufacturing process. This is the same procedure used to super-clean aerospace parts, hydraulic valve bodies, and the like.

Case scratching problems can usually be traced to the reloading area and some of the equipment that may be in or near it. A few guidelines that will help are listed below:

1. Keep the abrasive dust and particles from spent primers cleaned up and away from all equipment.
2. If you have a small bench grinder, it should be kept away from the reloading bench, preferably in another room.
3. Loading on the range, especially in windy or dusty conditions, can introduce cleanliness problems that can be hard to manage.
4. Case tumblers are another potential source of problems. While the cases may come out shiny, they will actually have a thin film of abrasive residue on them. Cases should be thoroughly cleaned and/or washed before going into the dies.
5. Nickel plated cases are often associated with die scratching problems. Small particles of the hard nickel plating may be present from trimming and/or deburring operations and can find their way inside the dies.
6. It is important to understand that foreign material does not have to be hard to cause problems. Brass chips from trimming and deburring can find their way inside the resizing die, where they can literally be welded to the inside of the die under the extreme pressures generated by full-length resizing. When this happens, the "brass against brass" action will gall the cases, leaving an apparent scratch. The condition will rapidly worsen as brass continues to build up.

Cleaning Your Dies

We are often asked, "How should I clean my dies?" The answer is to use the same procedures, with the same equipment and solvents, that you use to clean the bore of your rifle or handgun. Use the same diligence and effort as well, since the brushing and copper solvents will work well on any brass deposits that may have accumulated inside the die.

Another question that comes up is, "Can I do any internal polishing?" Again, the answer is, "Yes, with care!" The best arrangement is to chuck the die in a lathe, after stripping it down and removing the internal parts. Use #400 or #600 wet/dry auto body paper wrapped around a small wooden dowel. Keep the paper wet with a thin petroleum product with the consistency of WD-40 or kerosene. Using this method, you will easily be able to remove any foreign material or brass build-up from the inside of the die.

Since our dies are heat-treated to approximately 62 Rockwell C, you can polish for a long time without changing the internal dimensions. Do not use ordinary sandpaper or anything coarser than #400, as you will scratch the interior of the die surface and void the lifetime warranty.

It is very important to give the dies a thorough cleaning, after the polishing operation. They should be thoroughly washed, flushed, and wiped several times. Again, just as when cleaning your rifle, check the dies for cleanliness with severhttp://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/scratches-on-cas-neck-after-sizing.3808313/al wet patches and then lube and dry patch them.

In summary, the name of the game when it comes to avoiding scratched cases is cleanliness! A little attention paid to keeping your reloading area clean, and periodically cleaning your dies, will insure that they give you years of trouble-free service.

Scratches on case neck after sizing
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/scratches-on-cas-neck-after-sizing.3808313/

[JeepsAndGuns]

So what about the brand new die set? They had never been used, and the first time I tried them was with the dry neck lube and they scratched the case necks worse than the die that I have used to size hundreds of cases with.

I keep all my dies in their original boxes. After each use I take them apart and clean with a clean soft cloth I twist to a point and pull it through the die body.

I took the die in question and using a cleaning patch, a jag, a short piece of cleaning rod, a drill, and some JB bore paste, polished the inside of the die.
I am going to shoot the cases, then see if I can clean/polish the scratches off the necks then see if I get scratches again.

[tcoz]

I'm betting that will solve the problem

[bigedp51]

The new die scratched the cases more than the older die because of the burs at the neck shoulder junction.

You will find a snug fitting shotgun cleaning mop will do a better job polishing the inside of the die.

And again the finely ground graphite powder can not scratch your dies, and your not the first person to have the same problem of scratched necks.

Google "scratched case necks" and read.

[Fotheringill]

I note that you use the dry graphite with media. I use the dry graphite Imperial without the media. Never had a problem with any die from Lee to Redding to RCBS.

[savgebolt]

j and g ,,,,,, with lid on be sure and turn your container of imperial dry neck lube upside down and shake so the graphite come to what ,,,, will be the top

[Bowguy]

Will be interesting to see what you find that's causing the scratches. Imperial dry lube has never caused this in the 15 + years I have been using it.

[Robinhood]

How do you clean your brass?