Deer Bullet For 223 Savage Edge

[Willy]

I'm in Manitoba, Canada and I believe the minimum requirement is .22 centerfire, so I'm even considering 22 Hornet for head shots, (only in areas near civilization). The Hornady 45g 22 Hornet, at least according to Hornady ballistics, is about 40% more powerful than Rem. or Win. The Nosler 22 Hornet is even more powerful but it's quite a bit more expensive and I've never seen it a store.

[pisgah]

Where legal, the .223 can do fine work on deer. Every major manufacturer makes at least one load tailored for deer and/or hogs. They all work -- just depends on which one your rifle shoots best. My Axis loves the Federal MSR ammo with their 62 gr. Fusion bullet.

[hawkeyesatx823]

I personally, if it's legal mind you, would use as the Winchester 62gr soft tip. Your 1 in 9 twist optimal bullet weight should be 69grs. There are a few 69gr factory loads out there that have a soft tip, or a hollow point. Get a few rounds, starting at 62grs, and 69grs, and see which load your rifle likes best. Here in Texas, quite a few deer are taken legally with the .223 or 5.56 NATO. Deer here tend to run a little smaller, and are harvested cleanly with a number of rifle combinations and the .223!
Good luck, and good hunting.

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[pisgah]

I think from a ballistic standpoint you don't want the bullet to exit.. you want as much, preferably all the bullets energy to be absorbed by the vital organs of the deer helping ensure it's quick demise.

I wish this idea had never gotten started, but it did and now it's quoted like scripture whenever the subject comes up -- even though it is nonsensical.

The total number of foot-pounds of energy an animal is hit with bears absolutely no relationship to how fast it dies. What matters is the amount of work that energy does; that is, how much fatal damage is accomplished. If, say, a .30-06 150 gr. bullet somehow stops within a deer, but does not do sufficient damage to kill, the deer does not die; it likely doesn't even fall over. By the same token, if the same-weight bullet at the same velocity, well-placed, travels all the way through wreaking havoc as it goes, you've got a dead deer. AND you've got a decent blood trail to follow just in case he doesn't keel over right there.

A shot deer does not die from blunt trauma; it dies from tissue damage resulting in vascular collapse. I once hit a buck well-known to me with a '75 Oldsmobile 98 going 55 mph. I don't know the energy involved, but do the math; it was considerable, more than any bullet from a rifle could deliver, and I hit him square. He jumped up and ran off. A month later I saw him again, limping slightly but otherwise hale and hearty. A year later, my hunting body killed him in his tracks with a .30-30 delivering but a fraction of the energy delivered by the Olds.

Think of a deer killed by an arrow. The foot-pounds of energy transferred to his body is barely enough to produce a healthy pat on the back, but the destructive work done by that small amount of energy as the arrow passes through is absolutely, quickly fatal.

[Ted_Feasel]

Hmm... almost completely contrary to what we were taught in the academy and in the military

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[hawkeyesatx823]

By far, and I'm sure all will agree, is bullet placement. A heart and lung shot is the best and most humane way to go.


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[rjtfroggy]

In my state 6mm or larger ( CT.) but many deer have been killed by 22lr, 22 mag., and of course the deerjacker's special the 22 Hornet with a 40gr. hollow point. If it was me I would use a 64gr. power point and shoot for the lungs/heart.

[hawkeyesatx823]

In my state 6mm or larger ( CT.) but many deer have been killed by 22lr, 22 mag., and of course the deerjacker's special the 22 Hornet with a 40gr. hollow point. If it was me I would use a 64gr. power point and shoot for the lungs/heart.I whole heartedly agree with this statement![emoji115] [emoji106] [emoji106]

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[pisgah]

Hmm... almost completely contrary to what we were taught in the academy and in the military

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Well, if you are replying to my post all I can say is I don't know what academy or military you refer to, but you were taught wrong.

[wbm]

Not really. What he was taught is what I was taught that massive internal tissue damage is what is desired in military ammuntion. FMJ bullets that pass through without fragmentation do not produce near the damage. Original issue M193 ammunition for the M16 used in Vietnam produced wound cavities beyond what one would expect for that caliber. The thin jacket bullet plus the cannelure caused fragmentation. The result was some horrendous wounds. Been there saw that first hand.

[Ted_Feasel]

Not really. What he was taught is what I was taught that massive internal tissue damage is what kills. FMJ bullets that pass through without fragmentation do not produce near the damage. Original issue M193 ammunition for the M16 used in Vietnam produced wound cavities beyond what one would expect for that caliber. The thin jacket bullet plus the cannelure caused fragmentation. Been there saw that first hand.Exactly what I was taught... more often than not it is the concussion from the massive energy spike that causes massive organ failure... there are instances where clean through wouldn't matter such as medulla oblingata or some other critical nervous system area

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[hawkeyesatx823]

Again, have to agree with WBM. I was taught the same thing in the Air Force while going through Security Forces training.

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[wbm]

There is a reason sniper ammunition is not full metal jacket. It is designed to get in and come apart. Berger and Barnes went round and round about fragmentation bullets vs. expansion and high weight retention bullets several years ago. In my opinion Berger won the debate.

[Ted_Feasel]

There is a reason sniper ammunition is not full metal jacket. It is designed to get in and come apart. Berger and Barnes went round and round about fragmentation bullets vs. expansion and high weight retention bullets several years ago. In my opinion Berger won the debate.All I need is one that hits paper lol

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[wbm]

Me too.

[pisgah]

Exactly what I was taught... more often than not it is the concussion from the massive energy spike that causes massive organ failure... there are instances where clean through wouldn't matter such as medulla oblingata or some other critical nervous system area

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The "massive energy spike" MAY cause permanent damage, but most often it causes only a temporary wound cavity, which may cause temporary incapacitation but not necessarily permanent damage -- unless the bullet fragments, as with the old M193 round. It was the fragmentation and the resultant damage that created the damage with those rounds, not the FPE. But that is irrelevant when we are speaking of using the .223 for deer, as the bullets used in the loads intended for big game are not FMJ designed to fragment, but controlled-expansion rounds specifically designed to expand but hold together and penetrate. Having used them on numerous deer and hogs I can testify that they produce rapidly fatal internal damage and usually exit, as a reliable big-game round should, when shots are properly placed.

[Ted_Feasel]

Like I said early on, I'm not a hunter... I just understand the ballistics of it... I've always been told deer can be tough to kill... I know I've had 2 cars and the deer won the fights... but as far as what bullet kill a deer I couldn't tell you, I know my friends here that hunt don't want the bullets exiting and they don't want to chase them... that's about my extent of knowledge on deer hunting

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[pisgah]

Like I said early on, I'm not a hunter... I just understand the ballistics of it... I've always been told deer can be tough to kill... I know I've had 2 cars and the deer won the fights... but as far as what bullet kill a deer I couldn't tell you, I know my friends here that hunt don't want the bullets exiting and they don't want to chase them... that's about my extent of knowledge on deer hunting

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All I can say is, if your friends are pursuing a load that won't exit, they are pursuing a folly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a bullet that exits, as long as it does the work it needs to do on the way through. And in fact, given that often a deer, even perfectly hit with a bullet that does what it's supposed to do, will run a ways before expiring, a nice big exit hole is a decided plus. I've seen deer with heart and lungs shredded that made 250 yards -- dead every inch of they way, but didn't know it. In 54 years of killing deer I have never had a bullet fail to exit, and have never -- yet-- lost a deer that ran after the hit. In my first 40 years of deer hunting, I logged every one killed -- 220 when I finally stopped logging 'em 15 years ago, probably 35 or 40 since then. If any of your friends can top that, my hat's off to them.

[wbm]

Where legal, the .223 can do fine work on deer. Every major manufacturer makes at least one load tailored for deer and/or hogs. They all work -- just depends on which one your rifle shoots best. My Axis loves the Federal MSR ammo with their 62 gr. Fusion bullet.

That is your best bet Willy. Just find factory stuff your rifle likes and go with it. As long as you know the limitations of the 223 and go with them you should do fine.

[bowhntr62a]

Like I said early on, I'm not a hunter... I just understand the ballistics of it... I've always been told deer can be tough to kill... I know I've had 2 cars and the deer won the fights... but as far as what bullet kill a deer I couldn't tell you, I know my friends here that hunt don't want the bullets exiting and they don't want to chase them... that's about my extent of knowledge on deer hunting

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As for your friends that don't like a bullet to exit that's nuts the more holes going in and out can let more blood out for better blood trails if you have to track them ! I have found with the 357 maximum pistol I use that blunt tip bullets do more shock and still exit than pointed bullets ! Normally with the Max it's bang flop ! 30+ deer in 15 yrs speaks for itself ! I also use pointed bullets in other rounds I load for but my go to round for deer is 357 Max !


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