starting over

[tropicmaster]

I came really close to buying Dustoffer's SSS 6mm build, and may still if it is around for a few days. What I am thinking of now is just getting a NIB model 12 in the caliber I originally wanted and working from there. I think that either the BVSS or the VLP will do pretty much anything I need done for several months with the only addition being a scope and a bi pod. There is not much of a price difference in the two so which would you buy and why? I know the 10's are less expensive, but I really want the laminate stock and the long barrel. What I really want is the 12 F/tr, but that is not in the cards financially right now.

[sinman]

If it was me, I would build one, if I were going to do it again, build another. that way you get exactly what you want. It might cost you 100-200 more but its exactly what you want. What caliber are you looking at?

[dcloco]

Build. Buy a 12FV and a Bell & Carlson tactical medalist.

The BVSS stocks are nice, but heavy.

My list for a build.....

12FV
Northlander's stainless recoil lugs
Timney trigger (if you don't like the Accutrigger)
B & C stock
EGW picatinny 20 moa one piece base
Burris Signature Zee rings

Bed the action in the stock, buy some decent glass, and start breaking in the barrel.

After some time, you might want to upgrade to one of the many stainless prefit aftermarket barrels as well. In my experience, ALL of the major brands are very good.

[tropicmaster]

If it was me, I would build one, if I were going to do it again, build another. that way you get exactly what you want. It might cost you 100-200 more but its exactly what you want. What caliber are you looking at?


.308 simply because whether I buy or build I will spend enough money that it will be several months before I can begin buying reloading equipment. The .308 seems to have plenty of very high grade factory ammo available to shot in the interim. My end goal is a switch barrel in .284 Win for long range comps, probably F class open and maybe BR as well. Before I get to that I have to learn how to shoot LR and reload, and my thinking was that the .308 is the best way to do that all things considered.

[sinman]

Depending on how far you are shooting I would look at 223. You can shoot out to 600yrds or so with the right barrel. And if something is going to make you shoot better it will be that because you will learn to figure out drop and learn out how to read wind and that is something you will need for long range shooting.

[dcloco]

.308 simply because whether I buy or build I will spend enough money that it will be several months before I can begin buying reloading equipment. The .308 seems to have plenty of very high grade factory ammo available to shot in the interim. My end goal is a switch barrel in .284 Win for long range comps, probably F class open and maybe BR as well. Before I get to that I have to learn how to shoot LR and reload, and my thinking was that the .308 is the best way to do that all things considered.


When you need some 284 Win brass, pm or email me. I have a stash.

[Corprin]

I wouldn't go with a .308 if I was going to be shooting beyond 500yrds. I know there are people that will skin me for saying so, but having fired more A136 than most people see in a lifetime, I figure I have a voice... although a small one.

If you are going for accurate fire at ranges up to, and slightly beyond 1000yrd... and you are planning on rolling your own, look into the 6.5mm family. If you are looking at using a factory load, I would strongly recommend looking into 25-06, .270, and for the short action the 7mm-08.

[tammons]

Set up a 7mm something or other like a 284 or 7mmWSM to shoot the 180 gr VLD berger.

BC of about .7

[GaCop]

The 280 Ackley is no slouch either.

[tropicmaster]

You know Sinman I gave some thought to .223 but was a little afraid it would not be up to the task of shooting much past 350 or so accurately. Plus I am in doubt about its ability to take hogs or deer at any distance, much less the 2-300 yd shot I usually get where I hunt.. I guess I could continue hunting with my old 7mm mag, but I am not going to want my new rifle sitting in the safe when I go hunting! My real problem is that just cannot afford to buy or build a new rifle, buy a good scope, and buy all the reloading stuff at the same time. I have to do it in stages as I save money. That means I am going to be shooting factory for a good while.

Corprin what is your reasoning for not using the .308? I agree that it is not the ultimate 1K round, but it does do the job at 1k and it is readily available in competition loads. Your point about the 6.5 is a good one for the switch barrel, but I think the .284 will stay right with it and have a much lower barrel replacement cycle cost. From what I am reading the guys who shoot .284/6.5 or the Lapua 6.5 are changing barrels around 900 rounds, whereas the straight .284 is running over 2k rounds. The straight .284 can be chambered and barreled to allow the use of the 180grn VLD's

[tropicmaster]

Build. Buy a 12FV and a Bell & Carlson tactical medalist.

The BVSS stocks are nice, but heavy.

My list for a build.....

12FV
Northlander's stainless recoil lugs
Timney trigger (if you don't like the Accutrigger)
B & C stock
EGW picatinny 20 moa one piece base
Burris Signature Zee rings

Bed the action in the stock, buy some decent glass, and start breaking in the barrel.

After some time, you might want to upgrade to one of the many stainless prefit aftermarket barrels as well. In my experience, ALL of the major brands are very good.



I dont see a Tactical Medalist offered for any of the Savage actions, only Remington? I am looking on the B&C website. I do like that stock though!!!

[Forester]

I have a really nice .308 on a Savage action, Stockade stock, McGowen barrel that I love to shoot and is crazy accurate. I like the gun a lot and every new scope I get ends up on that gun for awhile because I know the gun is right.

All that said, for what you want I would get a 7-08 instead. The accuracy is still there, but the ballistics are a little better. Good factory ammo is available and when you start reloading you will be much happier with the ballistics you can squeeze out of a 7-08.

You are learning to shoot long range with this gun, you need to learn at the same time how to manage (I don't mean tolerate) some recoil, a 13lb .223 won't teach you that at all. You also need to shoot a lot of rounds, a barrel burning 7WSM or 25-06 while both great rounds (I'm building a 7WSM now) will just cost you more to shoot while you are learning...do that upgrade later.

We are talking about the gun here, but don't overlook the need for good to great glass. Depending on your budget the Zeiss Conquest is great for the money. For good glass at a great price I like the Vortex Viper series scopes. stick it in a good set of rings and bases and you will like the rifle better!

[tammons]

If its going to be a hunting rifle too, I would say 7mm-08, 284, or 308.

You can get good brass for all of them although for hunting that does not matter so much.

That said the new 7mm-08 savages have a too slow barrel twist. You want at least a 1:9.5 twist to shoot the 162 gr amax. 284 1:8 twist.

I just switched over to 308 myself, mostly for ease of finding ammo, ability to shoot 110 gr amax and barnes bullets for light loads, up to 250 gr hawks for bush. Have not shot the hawks yet, but the 220 gr prohunters do okay in a 1:10 and are cheap.

[Corprin]

Corprin what is your reasoning for not using the .308? I agree that it is not the ultimate 1K round, but it does do the job at 1k and it is readily available in competition loads. Your point about the 6.5 is a good one for the switch barrel, but I think the .284 will stay right with it and have a much lower barrel replacement cycle cost. From what I am reading the guys who shoot .284/6.5 or the Lapua 6.5 are changing barrels around 900 rounds, whereas the straight .284 is running over 2k rounds. The straight .284 can be chambered and barreled to allow the use of the 180grn VLD's


First of all, are you dead set on using the short action, or are you willing to bump to the long action? I think the long is the better choice, as you can use it for a short round, but still have the option for growth.

I have used the .308 for most of my adult life, in semi and bolt form. Although the round is quite capable of dropping a target at ranges out to, and sometimes beyond 1,000yrd, there are better rounds for doing the work. The bullet starts to fall on its nose at 500, and the drop is pretty bad beyond that, so compensation is excessive IMO. You also are effected by the wind and other environmental conditions at longer ranges. The availability of decent to crazy accurate super sniperific ammo, and everything in between, is second to none in the factory offerings. Most people with a decently set up bolt rifle could buy a crate of surplus A136 (LR or Match) and live their lives very happy with shooting ragged little holes smaller than a dime at 100yrd. If you are planning on shooting factory loads, you will never find a more accurate, long range, large game capable round for cheaper.

With that said;

I am also starting the build for my rifle soon. There are a ton of pieces that go into the puzzle of your rifle, and choosing the right caliber for your needs is the most important one. You have to really think about what you want the rifle to do, how long you want it to last, and how much rifle you can take. I could easily reach my goal of consistent sub-12" groups at 1000yrd with a .338 lapua, .338 RUM, or something along those lines... but my bad shoulder would take one, maybe two, rounds of those rifles before I would be on my way home. I liked the BC of the 6.5's, but didn't like the ones you mentioned due to the short barrel life. This put me onto the sometimes overlooked 6.5x55 swede, and the 6.5x55 BJAI, which does exactly I want, but with a very respectable barrel life.

So, what are your wants and needs of your rifle?

[diriel]

+1 for the 6.5x55 BJAI. Keep in mind that if you have Bob set it up, it will come throated for the 120gr stuff. So you might want ask to have it throated a bit deeper for the 140gr stuff. Although its not all bad, you can still deep seat the 140s and get both great accuracy and velocity. Bob Jourdan is a good guy to do business with, very knowledgeable and nice.

Gary
P.S. The long action for the sweede is THE way to go.

[tropicmaster]

Corprin now I understand your thought, and I agree for the most part. First I will answer your questions. I am not dead set against a long action. I dont know enough yet to know exactly how to do it, but I know you can shoot short cartridges in a long action. Somewhere WAY down the road I would like to have a 25-06 and that certainly requires a long action. As far as my needs and needs for my rifle I guess it breaks down like this. 85% of rounds fired would be for casual long range shooting for fun and practice, 10% open F class competition, and 5 % hunting for deer and hogs. My thinking ( maybe wrong ) is that all the calibers that can do all three of those jobs well will require handloading. I cannot afford to get everything at once, and dont want to have to wait three or four months to start shooting. So if there is a caliber that can do all three, and has quality factory ammo available for now please clue me in. As for the two 6.5's you mentioned, I am not familiar with either one. I was under the impression that all of the 6.5's were barrel burners. The beauty of a Savage is that with a barrel and a bolt face (?) you can change calibers quickly and frequently. My want is to have something right now that can perform all three jobs ( even if not at best capacity ) with factory ammo, and switch to something better in a few months. I am not dead set on any caliber and am happy to hear your alternate suggestions. Thanks for the input!

[dcloco]

223...will do all three.

A LOT less expensive in the factory ammo department and a large advantage in the low recoil department as well.

SKU# 2999 – (Short action and WSM calibers only)

Off of B & C's website.



#2997 Savage Short Action Varmint/Tactical with or without Accu-Trigger, Fits NEW STYLE “CENTERFEED” OR “INLINE FEED” Fits the short action "two digit models" only (such as Model 10, 10GY, 11F, 12, 16 etc.) with heavy contour barrel and blind top loading internal magazine, with action screws measuring 4.389"center to center only.
#2999 Savage Short Action Varmint/Tactical with or without Accu-Trigger. Fits the short action "two digit models" only (Model 10, 10GY,11F,12,16,etc.)with heavy contour barrel and top loading internal magazine, with action screws measuring 4 1/4" center to center only.

From here: http://www.rifle-accuracy.com/medalst2.htm

[tammons]

How far will you shoot in 85% casual long range.

With only 5% F class, I dont think I would build a hot 1000 yard rifle, due to the fact you will just burn up barrels 85% casual shooting.

Most rounds mentioned will stay supersonic to 1000 yards. The 180 gr berger over RL17 in a 284 at about 3000 fps seems to be the ticket right now for 1000 yards. That said a 7mm-08 or 308 will get there too.


Although a 223 or a 243 will get ther too, probably not ideal for hogs. I shot a 200# + boar at 300 yards with a 7mm-08 and a 162 gr amax. Great cheap bullet, BC over .6. SD over .3. Blew through him like a freight train.
Dropped one shot.

That said, load up anything from a 6mm to a 308 with barnes tipped bullets and its instant death to hogs. Still bigger is better IMO for hogs. My favorite is a 338 tipped 210 gr barnes bullet at about 2700 fps.

[diriel]

I did not catch the OP's state. Some states do not allow 223 for hunting :(

I am going to go *WAY* out on a limb here and post something so off the wall only a *FEW* old old timers may smile. The 250-3000 Savage round is pure poison for most things in the continental US. Savage also is currently offering this in new run rifles again. Ammo may or may not be dirt cheap / super common, but lord knows its been around forever.

This little round touches pretty much all of the appropriate bases:
1) Low recoil
2) common round
3) Damn good hunting round
4) It should even be just capable of that 5% Fclass you mentioned. The Berger 115gr bullet with RL17 will safely push this to the 1k mark and remain super sonic, though not by a large margin. That bullet is also a VERY good hunting bullet! Though I admit the barnes bullets are also VERY good.

At the end of the day, that 308 is one truly versatile round as well. But finding cheap and plentiful ammo is very much hit or miss right at the moment.

Gary
P.S. The 250-3000 Savage round also happens to be one of PO Ackley's most efficient mod's. So if you bought this now and got just a little lucky and got a really nice shooting barrel, you could have it simply re-reamed for Ackley Improved and net some nice gains. You would also retain the ability to honestly shoot factory ammo quite well. Just a thought.

[docsleepy]

"#2997 Savage Short Action Varmint/Tactical with or without Accu-Trigger, Fits NEW STYLE “CENTERFEED” OR “INLINE FEED” Fits the short action "two digit models" only (such as Model 10, 10GY, 11F, 12, 16 etc.) with heavy contour barrel and blind top loading internal magazine, with action screws measuring 4.389"center to center only.
#2999 Savage Short Action Varmint/Tactical with or"



THose stocks are interesting -- but I cannot seem to find out how WIDE that forend is??? I'd prefer 3" to do benchrest shooting. Can anyone tell me how wide that forend is, and whether it is flat on the bottom?

Thanks
gordon