Axis Bolt Lift Kit Idea

[budgetshooter]

Hello fellow Savage shooters,

I was researching the improvements made to other Savage rifles using the bolt lift kit replacement bolt assembly screw and it seems that they work due to minimizing the friction with the bolt assembly screw (BAS) throughout the cocking operation.

However, I am aware that the Axis does not have the same solid BAS, and instead has a hollow one that allows for a cocking indicator.

In that case, does binding still occur around the diameter of the BAS? If so could this friction be minimized with the use of a small thrust bearing as I have seen it suggested somewhere?

Does anyone happen to have ID and OD measurements of the BAS? I'm just saving taking mine apart for until I have a whole regimen of solutions to test and hope to get it all done in one go.

Any feedback to this idea is welcome, it may be a no-starter.

Just thought i would include a picture of what such a thrust bearing may look like:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDc1MA==/z/vBYAAOSwgQ9V1EyQ/$_12.JPG

EDIT: I've done some digging on the forum and have seen suggestions for the use of a greased flat washer, I will try that first.

Beyond that, should the caming ramps and outer faces of the bolt lugs be polished to ease lift?

[LoneWolf]

The best and safest way I found to make bolt lift better on the Axis was to thread the factory handle and add a longer more ergonomic bolt handle. The increased leverage fixes the bolt lift issue and you can also get a bolt knob that gets both itself and your hand away from the scope. You can also spend a little bit of time lightly polishing the cocking ramp to ensure that there are no burs, but whenever doing anything to the bolt you risk making the firearm unsafe for a minor increase in performance.

[Deadshot2]

Hello fellow Savage shooters,

I was researching the improvements made to other Savage rifles using the bolt lift kit replacement bolt assembly screw and it seems that they work due to minimizing the friction with the bolt assembly screw (BAS) throughout the cocking operation.

However, I am aware that the Axis does not have the same solid BAS, and instead has a hollow one that allows for a cocking indicator.

In that case, does binding still occur around the diameter of the BAS? If so could this friction be minimized with the use of a small thrust bearing as I have seen it suggested somewhere?

Does anyone happen to have ID and OD measurements of the BAS? I'm just saving taking mine apart for until I have a whole regimen of solutions to test and hope to get it all done in one go.

Any feedback to this idea is welcome, it may be a no-starter.

Just thought i would include a picture of what such a thrust bearing may look like:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDc1MA==/z/vBYAAOSwgQ9V1EyQ/$_12.JPG

EDIT: I've done some digging on the forum and have seen suggestions for the use of a greased flat washer, I will try that first.

Beyond that, should the caming ramps and outer faces of the bolt lugs be polished to ease lift?

If I recall correctly someone already sells such a "kit". Either a kit or they will modify your bolt and add a thrust washer as you show here.

I'm a big fan of just finishing the work the factory should have done in the beginning but didn't in order to save money. Polish surfaces that have other parts slide over them and then use a good lube. I like the nickel based loctite for this purpose. It works it's way int the metal surfaces in contact with each other and reduces friction considerably. Also good to remove the burrs that are created by different tools performing different cuts, where they meet. My bolt will be getting this "makeover" as soon as the rest of the pieces show up. Not an Axis but a Model 10 however most of the principles hold true.

[budgetshooter]

Thank you for the feedback guys,

This is just so frustrating for me because I had a Mosin that used to require the leverage of a block of wood to lift the bolt as opposed to an extended handle and I actually succeeded to make it silky smooth by regrinding the extractor, straightening it, polishing the ramps (which were practically stairs, although at least with the basic correct helical shape), polishing the receiver and deburring the bolt face. Didn't even need any new parts.

Now I realize that it may not be possible to make even a modest improvement with a new Axis (not that it is starting at nearly that bad condition).

Who is selling this kit? I will likely not be able to buy it anyway but am curious.

I will do that polishing, measure for finding the right thrust bearing/washer, and will look into an ideal grease. I know that the ID hole must be at least 6mm to allow the FP to pass. Does anyone happen to have a measurement of the OD?

[budgetshooter]

Another thing I found, apparently if the cocking indicator portion of the FP is chopped off a solid BAS with the improvement will be compatible. But that seems like an extreme solution, and the loss of a feature.

[J.Baker]

Another thing I found, apparently if the cocking indicator portion of the FP is chopped off a solid BAS with the improvement will be compatible. But that seems like an extreme solution, and the loss of a feature.

Only problem with that idea is you would have reduced the weight (mass) of the firing pin and would likely end up with light primer strikes as a result. Aside from having Fred (sharpshooter) true and time the action for you, the only viable solutions that will do anything to even marginally lighten the bolt lift have already been mentioned above.

[Deadshot2]

Only problem with that idea is you would have reduced the weight (mass) of the firing pin and would likely end up with light primer strikes as a result. Aside from having Fred (sharpshooter) true and time the action for you, the only viable solutions that will do anything to even marginally lighten the bolt lift have already been mentioned above.

One of the reasons bolt lift is so heavy to begin with is the spring pressure. Not much chance of having a light strike just by removing the relatively insignificant amount of firing pin that makes up the "cocked" indicator. In reality it would lighten the firing pin assy and decrease "lock time" which in itself is not a bad result. I'm not familiar with the axis bolt so there may be more to the issue of removing the cocked incator than meets the eye.

For me, I don't see that little protrusion from the end of the bolt as a benefit. I was raised in the days when people who went shooting knew when their rifles were cocked and ready to shoot and didn't need an "indicator".

On my Model 10 I'm in the midst of a "Bolt Customization" project and it may well include a new Bolt Body from PT&G. The more I look at the burr's and "notches" left by quick and dirty machine work, I'm of the opinion a precision ground PT&G body will be noticeably better. I guess I can live without the etched Savage Logo if the thin works smoother :(

[J.Baker]

One of the reasons bolt lift is so heavy to begin with is the spring pressure. Not much chance of having a light strike just by removing the relatively insignificant amount of firing pin that makes up the "cocked" indicator. In reality it would lighten the firing pin assy and decrease "lock time" which in itself is not a bad result. I'm not familiar with the axis bolt so there may be more to the issue of removing the cocked incator than meets the eye.

For me, I don't see that little protrusion from the end of the bolt as a benefit. I was raised in the days when people who went shooting knew when their rifles were cocked and ready to shoot and didn't need an "indicator".

On my Model 10 I'm in the midst of a "Bolt Customization" project and it may well include a new Bolt Body from PT&G. The more I look at the burr's and "notches" left by quick and dirty machine work, I'm of the opinion a precision ground PT&G body will be noticeably better. I guess I can live without the etched Savage Logo if the thin works smoother :(

Well first, you're offering advice to someone on something you admit to having no zero first-hand experience with - an Axis bolt. The FP assembly on the Axis is totally different than that on a 110. Second, the firing pin spring rate is just fine. From the factory the cocking ramp slightly over-compresses the spring as you lift the bolt and then lets it back down slightly, but that really doesn't affect the feel much. The stiff bolt lift is primarily cause by the three ramps the bolt interacts with being out of time from one another (cocking ramp, lug ramps and primary extraction ramp). This causes the bolt to bind and you have to use more effort to overcome it. The only way to fix it (note I said fix, not mask) is to recut the ramps so that they are in time with one another.

In regards to lock time, Savage already has one of the fastest lock times of any bolt gun ever made. I would suggest you do a little more research before you delve into trying to change it. You can start with this thread: http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?22219-Main-spring-replacement-Decreased-Lock-time