Fire formed brass wont chamber

[gmanhawaii]

I saw a few post of this subject some of which were older and circumstances slightly different. So I am posing the question again. Thanks for any help

I have a new FLCP-SR in .308, I am fairly new to reloading but have not had this problem in my Ruger Precision Rifle or Weatherby Lazerguard both in .308.

I loaded some rounds with a recipe that works very well in my other .308's

Lapua Brass
44.5 Gr Varget
210 primers
168 gr SMK

I also bought a box of Fed GMM in 168 gr

None of my fire formed cases will chamber, if I force the bolt to close I get a dent on the shoulder.

Help

[bigedp51]

Buy a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and measure your fired cases and your resized cases.

Below a fired Lake City case fired in my AR15 carbine, after sizing the case shoulder is bumped back .003.

http://i.imgur.com/H0SXHH8.jpg

Different cases will not have the same spring back rate, meaning brass hardness will effect shoulder location after sizing.

I also use a JP Enterprise case gauge made from a chamber finish reamer for a final "plop test" of all reloaded rounds. If the loaded rounds drops all the way into the gauge and falls out when inverted the ammo is good to go.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31nmN-cC24L._SX342_.jpg

NOTE, Wilson and Dillon type case gauges do not check case diameter and the JP Enterprise gauge does. Below you can see how far the reversed case drops into the Wilson and Dillon gauges and only check headspace length.

http://i.imgur.com/KSB3ZvP.jpg

Bottom line, the Hornady gauge checks case headspace length/shoulder bump and the JP Enterprise gauge checks case and neck diameter. And when using mixed brass you will have "mixed" case headspace lengths and may have to bump the shoulder back more than with brass from the same lot.

When full length resizing the case shoulder needs to be pushed back below the red dotted line in the image below. And this is where the Hornady gauge makes life easier for proper shoulder bump and die setup.

http://i.imgur.com/wm05ArY.gif

[gmanhawaii]

Buy a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and measure your fired cases and your resized cases.

Below a fired Lake City case fired in my AR15 carbine, after sizing the case shoulder is bumped back .003.

http://i.imgur.com/H0SXHH8.jpg

Different cases will not have the same spring back rate, meaning brass hardness will effect shoulder location after sizing.

I also use a JP Enterprise case gauge made from a chamber finish reamer for a final "plop test" of all reloaded rounds. If the loaded rounds drops all the way into the gauge and falls out when inverted the ammo is good to go.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31nmN-cC24L._SX342_.jpg

NOTE, Wilson and Dillon type case gauges do not check case diameter and the JP Enterprise gauge does. Below you can see how far the reversed case drops into the Wilson and Dillon gauges and only check headspace length.

http://i.imgur.com/KSB3ZvP.jpg

Bottom line, the Hornady gauge checks case headspace length/shoulder bump and the JP Enterprise gauge checks case and neck diameter. And when using mixed brass you will have "mixed" case headspace lengths and may have to bump the shoulder back more than with brass from the same lot.

When full length resizing the case shoulder needs to be pushed back below the red dotted line in the image below. And this is where the Hornady gauge makes life easier for proper shoulder bump and die setup.

http://i.imgur.com/wm05ArY.gif

Ok so I took a couple of the fire formed brass and ran it through my Redding FL sizing die, still would not chamber without denting the shoulder. Got out my Redding Competition shell holders and started with .002, still got dent, tried again with .004 and .006, finally with .008 on both the fire formed Lapua and Federal brass I was able to chamber the brass with no dent. Am I okay with this?

[Texas10]

Another issue that will effect sizing is not lubing the INSIDE of the neck sufficiently during full length sizing. If you feel a lot of resistance on the up stroke, you may be stretching the newly sized neck/shoulder forward. This is easily measurable with the headspace gage, and if you are bumping your shoulder back only a thou or two, you will see a difference in chambering if you're stretching the shoulder forward 4 or 5 thou. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt to prove it.

Speaking of store bought ammo, I picked up a box of Australian Outback 308 with 168 gr SMK. After working a new load, I thought I had a pretty good hunting load using a 150 gr. Sierra soft point that was shooting about 3/4 a minute.

Then I shot three of the A.O.'s and they made a group half that size. Wondering if it was just plain luck, I gave 3 to the guy on the bench next to me who was having trouble with the load he was working up but wasn't sure if it was the load or the gun. Shot the same for him.

I paid 19.95 for a box of 20 at Cabelas two weeks before and it's not the first time I've had a great experience with A.O. ammo.

YMMV.

[bigedp51]

Ok so I took a couple of the fire formed brass and ran it through my Redding FL sizing die, still would not chamber without denting the shoulder. Got out my Redding Competition shell holders and started with .002, still got dent, tried again with .004 and .006, finally with .008 on both the fire formed Lapua and Federal brass I was able to chamber the brass with no dent. Am I okay with this?


The Redding competition shell holders do not push the case into the die as far as a standard shell holder would. Meaning these shell holders are for dies that push the shoulder back too far when the die touches the shell holder. Simply put when you resized your cases with the Redding competition shell holders the case shoulder was not pushed back below the red dotted line in the image I posted.

Now size your long cases that are dented using a standard shell holder and forget the Redding shell holders. Adjust your Redding die down until it contacts the shell holder then give it a 1/8 to a 1/4 turn more and the press cams over.

Using Redding competition shell holders is like placing a .002 to .010 feeler gauge on top of the shell holder and lowering the die until it contacts the feeler gauge. If you had a Hornady gauge you would see your cases after sizing were longer than the chambers headspace. So go back and look at the blue, red and green dotted lines in the image I posted. When you resized the case you squeezed the case and moved the shoulder upward past the red dotted line toward the blue dotted line.

So remember if your case is too long four hours after sizing because you put Viagra in the case lube you should call a Doctor.
(or stop using the Redding shell holders and get some good gauges and do not over lube your cases and wipe off the shoulder and neck after lubing)

[gmanhawaii]

Ok I'll give it a try with cam over. Can I do this with neck sizing only die, or do I have to use the FL die? I was hoping to only neck size to increase the life of the brass.

[bigedp51]

A neck sizing die doesn't push the case shoulder back and only sizes the case neck. And from your earlier posts it sounds like you made the cases "longer" in headspace.

If you want to push the shoulder back and chamber the case in your rifle you need to use a full length die.

This is if I understand your problem and you full length resized using Redding competition shell holders and did not push the shoulder back far enough.

Only once in over 47 years of reloading did I need to lap the top of a shell holder in order to make the case fit the chamber. Meaning a full length die using a standard shell holder will normally push the shoulder back far enough to chamber. And many times it pushes the shoulder back more than needed.

I prefer to full length resize my cases and if needed I use Redding competition shell holders to "prevent" pushing the shoulder back too far and getting minimum shoulder bump.

[m12lrs]

I saw a few post of this subject some of which were older and circumstances slightly different. So I am posing the question again. Thanks for any help

I have a new FLCP-SR in .308, I am fairly new to reloading but have not had this problem in my Ruger Precision Rifle or Weatherby Lazerguard both in .308.

I loaded some rounds with a recipe that works very well in my other .308's

Lapua Brass
44.5 Gr Varget
210 primers
168 gr SMK

I also bought a box of Fed GMM in 168 gr

None of my fire formed cases will chamber, if I force the bolt to close I get a dent on the shoulder.

Help

I think i would back off on that load some. How do the primers.look? Ejector swipes? Tight bolt? With a new rifle you should always start low and work up.

Are you using a full length die or a neck sizing.die? Obviously in this case you need to full length size.

Need the hornady headspace gauges. Check your fired brass compare it to new brass. How much is the brass growing? Compare to saami spec. Could be a headspace problem. If you have go/no go check headspace.

Measure the base of your fired brass about a 1/4" above the base. Hot load may be expanding the base of the case too much.

[The Old Coach]

A dent on the shoulder says that there's something stuck in your chamber. A partially burned powder kernel is a good possibility. Would not be the first time. Shoving the shoulder back is only going to give you excess headspace. A borescope would be invaluable, but if you have not got one then give the chamber a vigorous wire brushing and try again.

[bigedp51]

Ok so I took a couple of the fire formed brass and ran it through my Redding FL sizing die, still would not chamber without denting the shoulder. Got out my Redding Competition shell holders and started with .002, still got dent, tried again with .004 and .006, finally with .008 on both the fire formed Lapua and Federal brass I was able to chamber the brass with no dent. Am I okay with this?


A dent on the shoulder says that there's something stuck in your chamber. A partially burned powder kernel is a good possibility. Would not be the first time. Shoving the shoulder back is only going to give you excess headspace. A borescope would be invaluable, but if you have not got one then give the chamber a vigorous wire brushing and try again.

This is the part that is hard to understand, if he uses the +.008 shell holder he is not pushing the case into the die as far as he would with a standard shell holder. Meaning if something was in the chamber and using the Redding +.008 shell holder he would have a even bigger dent in the case shoulder. This case would be .008 "LONGER" in cartridge headspace after sizing and not shorter.

Bottom line how can a .008 longer case when chambered not be dented and the shorter cases are dented? I was thinking the cases were dented from over lubrication and by pushing the cases into the die .008 "less" the OP left more shoulder room for the lube.

A standard shell holder has a deck height of .125 and the +.008 shell holder would have a deck height of .133 which lowers the case in the shell holder. Meaning the case is pushed .008 "LESS" into the die making the cartridge headspace "LONGER". This Redding +.008 shell holder would be the same as placing a .008 feeler gauge on top of the shell holder and then screwing the die down until it contacts the feeler gauge.

As the saying goes, "I'm not sure I understand everything I don't know about this."

[bigedp51]

Double post.

[gbflyer]

On another tangent, the dent could be caused from too much case lube. The refusal to chamber may be caused from cases needing trimmed. I bring this up because I recently went through this drill with a 7-08.

[m12lrs]

This is the part that is hard to understand, if he uses the +.008 shell holder he is not pushing the case into the die as far as he would with a standard shell holder. Meaning if something was in the chamber and using the Redding +.008 shell holder he would have a even bigger dent in the case shoulder. This case would be .008 "LONGER" in cartridge headspace after sizing and not shorter.

Bottom line how can a .008 longer case when chambered not be dented and the shorter cases are dented? I was thinking the cases were dented from over lubrication and by pushing the cases into the die .008 "less" the OP left more shoulder room for the lube.

A standard shell holder has a deck height of .125 and the +.008 shell holder would have a deck height of .133 which lowers the case in the shell holder. Meaning the case is pushed .008 "LESS" into the die making the cartridge headspace "LONGER". This Redding +.008 shell holder would be the same as placing a .008 feeler gauge on top of the shell holder and then screwing the die down until it contacts the feeler gauge.

As the saying goes, "I'm not sure I understand everything I don't know about this."

Could be it is not the shoulder but the base of the case that is the problem. Bringing the die further down on the case sizes the base.

[gmanhawaii]

Well this morning got up and read recent post to my dilemma. I did as The Old Coach suggested and gave the chamber a vigorous brushing, retried fired brass and low and behold, it all chambered perfectly.


As to gbflyers, caused by too much case lube, the dent occurred during the chambering process not during resizing but thanks for the help.

Thanks everyone for their help, hopefully it will continue to work with good cleaning.

[gbflyer]

Glad you were able to sort it out!

[gmanhawaii]

Glad you were able to sort it out!

Me too. I measured difference between fired brass vs new and there seems to only be a .002 difference in how much the brass expands over the length so I think I am going to use FL dies instead of just neck sizing. I have ordered a Hornady Lock-N-Load head space gauge so I can set up my FL die to bump shoulder back .002 making failure to chamber less likely.

[Fotheringill]

I, too, thank you. I learned a lot on this topic from reading and understanding the posts in this thread.

[tcoz]

Me too. I measured difference between fired brass vs new and there seems to only be a .002 difference in how much the brass expands over the length so I think I am going to use FL dies instead of just neck sizing. I have ordered a Hornady Lock-N-Load head space gauge so I can set up my FL die to bump shoulder back .002 making failure to chamber less likely.

Thats what I do also. I've never seen any evidence that necksizing improves accuracy. AFAIK the only advantages are not having to lube cases and possibly increased case life but if you're only bumping the shoulder .002, that shouldn't negatively affect case life. You'd still have to f/l size every five or so firings anyway.

[gmanhawaii]

Thats what I do also. I've never seen any evidence that necksizing improves accuracy. AFAIK the only advantages are not having to lube cases and possibly increased case life but if you're only bumping the shoulder .002, that shouldn't negatively affect case life. You'd still have to f/l size every five or so firings anyway.

My fired brass measures 1.632, my FL die with ram just touching die bumps shoulder back to 1.629 only .003 so it's not really over working the brass. Also I plan on annealing the brass after 3rd firing. The accuracy difference between FL and neck sizing I will never see anyway. My current load in new brass is grouping .334-.570 depending on how dirty the barrel is so I'm not going to sweat it. I'd rather lessen the chance of failures to load.

[bigedp51]

Thats what I do also. I've never seen any evidence that necksizing improves accuracy. AFAIK the only advantages are not having to lube cases and possibly increased case life but if you're only bumping the shoulder .002, that shouldn't negatively affect case life. You'd still have to f/l size every five or so firings anyway.

tcoz, you must be almost as smart, good looking and modest as I am. I belong to the "rat turd in the violin case" club and believe people who worked in the Sierra ballistics test lab and shoots for Lapua USA.

http://i.imgur.com/Y3IiYL5.jpg