POI--223 experiences

[WV1951]

Working on loads and worked up a small ladder today on three weights. Narrowed these down from earlier loads. From your 223 experience(may apply to any caliber), would you expect the different points of impact I experienced with 55, 60, and 69 grain. Not worrying about individual shots, but location of group as a whole. Particularly surprised at the 69 grain difference from the other two. Look normal?
I think I have an idea where to concentrate and work on seating depth.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/mandn1951/IMG_2894_zpsx2ixkbnj.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/mandn1951/media/IMG_2894_zpsx2ixkbnj.jpg.html)

[jpx2rk]

I shoot a lot of 223 and not surprised at the POI's with different bullet weights, but I am surprised that the 69's shot higher than the lighter bullets. I would just assume the 69 is the bullet for this gun.

[WV1951]

I have been shooting factory up till now. It does seem to favor 69's, but the other weights(55,62) have had a much closer POI to the 69's.
This is what surprised me. Maybe a different charge will move the lighter ones up to a closer POI.

[jpx2rk]

Looking closer at the target, did you use a different powder for the 69's ? That could cause the shift in POI when comparing the 3 loads ???

[WV1951]

No, I didn't use a different powder. I just can't write very well. What an idiot I am. All are H4895. I corrected the pic.
I loaded up some more, narrowing down where I want to be, and the POI is still a couple or so inches different. I did do one load of 55's closer to max, and that one did move POI much closer, but not sure it is what I want.

[rjtfroggy]

Your gun just likes the 69smk's so stop messing with success. Looking at the target load at 24.5 adjust seating depth a couple thousands (in) and try again. My guess is you will call it good to go.
Your other two bullet choices have a lot of vertical (velocity) and the 60's group better than the 55's, - weight difference.

[trentcwwilson]

WV1951, what are you shooting them out of and what twist? I found with my AR in 1 in 9 that it didn't like the 69gr SMKs but loved the 55gr V-Max. As in .5MOA at 100(right) and just slightly larger at 200(left). https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170322/16fc48b40dfcdd918f4892a05ed384b5.jpg

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[WV1951]

WV1951, what are you shooting them out of and what twist? I found with my AR in 1 in 9 that it didn't like the 69gr SMKs but loved the 55gr V-Max. As in .5MOA at 100(right) and just slightly larger at 200(left).

1:9 12FV


Your gun just likes the 69smk's so stop messing with success. Looking at the target load at 24.5 adjust seating depth a couple thousands (in) and try again. My guess is you will call it good to go.
Your other two bullet choices have a lot of vertical (velocity) and the 60's group better than the 55's, - weight difference.

Yep. that is where I am heading. I have some 24.4 and 24.6 with the 69's with a little seating depth difference ready to go. I was going to do more, but ran out, so I will have to make a run and replenish.
Not giving up on 55's, have a few more combinations ready to go, but I agree that the 69ers seems to be what mine likes. I've got em, so why not use em up?

[trentcwwilson]

My 12FV is the one rifle I'm taking to the grave with me. Had it rebarreled with a Shilen stainless match 1 in 7. Loves the 90 grain VLDs. What 55 grain bullet are you using?

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[WV1951]

oops.

[WV1951]

Hornady Varmint. Flat based along with the 60's.

[trentcwwilson]

With that twist, see if you can find a friend to give you a few of the 55gr V-Max or buy a box of 100. Try a healthy dose of Varget. If I remember correctly, my loads produced great groups with 27.0 and 27.3gr. 27.5 is max.

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[WV1951]

I have Varget, which I will go to next. My s-i-l gave me some Varget loads a while back, although loaded long, and not knowing the load, they didn't do well. Not a fair test, but will look into.

[trentcwwilson]

I load them to what Hodgdon recommends. They shot well at that length.

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[schnyd112]

I would be more concerned that shot 6 was high on all three targets. I don't shoot much .223, but I agree that your barrel likes the heavier bullet. Even though they are going slower, it looks like the bullet clears the barrel with the 69's higher in the "whip" than the others. Hence the better poi. The smaller bullets may also be flying flatter, causing them to shoot below your zero. Either way, I would load the 69's all day.

[WV1951]

Your gun just likes the 69smk's so stop messing with success. Looking at the target load at 24.5 adjust seating depth a couple thousands (in) and try again. My guess is you will call it good to go.
Your other two bullet choices have a lot of vertical (velocity) and the 60's group better than the 55's, - weight difference.

Looks you you nailed it. Wanted to confirm what I thought from two days ago. Need to replenish and see if i can repeat with a five shot group.
I continue to get very minor primer cratering at this depth with the 69's only(another thread addresses this), but I have concluded the CCI 400's must be on the soft side.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/mandn1951/IMG_2898_zpszvir1g7m.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/mandn1951/media/IMG_2898_zpszvir1g7m.jpg.html)

[jpx2rk]

Try CCI 450's and see what happens.

[trentcwwilson]

I wouldn't say it's the primers. CCI has the hardest primers currently on the market. Are you within recommended charge weights or are you slightly above, but still safe in your rifle? And just for future reference, CCI Small Rifle and Small Pistol primers are the same. I talked last week with a CCI rep during the last shortage and he said they're the same, with the exception that the rifle burns hotter. Roughly halfway between the SP and SP mag primers. If you're getting cratering, I'd check your firing pin hole. Excessive tolerance can lead to cratering at higher loads. Figured that out on my 6.5x284 before I sold it.

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[WV1951]

CCI 450's would require starting over. Not particularly interested in that. Might try some BR4's if I come across. Loads aren't even half way to max. I've got some pics in a flat primer thread. Firing pin detent in primer is smooth and looks proper. All of my 55 grain loads closer to max have no indications at all. If you weren't looking for the crater(maybe not an adequate description), probably wouldn't notice. It has a little roughness when rubbing my finger over the spent primer. Case head absolutely clean.

[trentcwwilson]

CCI 450's would require starting over. Not particularly interested in that. Might try some BR4's if I come across. Loads aren't even half way to max. I've got some pics in a flat primer thread. Firing pin detent in primer is smooth and looks proper. All of my 55 grain loads closer to max have no indications at all. If you weren't looking for the crater(maybe not an adequate description), probably wouldn't notice. It has a little roughness when rubbing my finger over the spent primer. Case head absolutely clean.
As the gunsmith who I did my apprenticeship under always said, your fingers can see more than your eyes. If you're not getting massive cratering, I wouldn't worry too much. If you deprime and the anvil separates from the cup, then I'd start worrying to the point I'd have it looked at.