Throat/leade size question

[WV1951]

This may be the wrong section, but I encountered this when starting my first loads.
In searching for the distance to the lands, I made up a dummy round after having an idea where I needed to be. I felt tip penned the entire bullet, chambered, then retracted, and without touching the lands yet, the entire circumference of the bullet next to the case mouth had the marker scraped off. I couldn't come up with an answer through a search, other than comments on throat size, etc., but nothing whether what I have is good, bad, or indifferent. I am assuming my lead diameter is near exactly .224 and not .001-.002 over.
I did notice that throat/lead(e), and freebore get tossed around interchangeably.

[bigedp51]

If you have a brand new rifle the step between "F" and "G" below could be rough and scraping your bullet. Try shooting the rifle and break in the throat and recheck.

http://i.imgur.com/wjAOlWq.jpg

[WV1951]

Thanks, Biged
For the diagram. This is a somewhat new rifle, but I have a couple of hundred rounds down the tube.
I see that the PTG 223 Rem has the freebore diameter at .224, which would explain why the bullet could definitely slightly rub the freebore space when entering. The scraped area of the bullet is just in front of the case mouth and is all the way around the diameter.
I just wanted to make sure it wasn't too tight.

[bigedp51]

I collected milsurp British Enfield rifles and had the exact opposite problem. British ammunition was loaded with cordite powder that had more nitroglycerin than double base pistol powders have today.

The cordite powder caused throat erosion and was banned from machine gun use. And on a well used Enfield rifle you couldn't find the lands even if you seated the bullet backwards.

Below the powder was loaded into the case "before" the shoulder and neck of the case was formed.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/cordite303-1.jpg

[WV1951]

This is what I am getting when chambering. Also posted on another thread regarding another issue. Too tight?

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/mandn1951/IMG_2863_zpsw3hqmia9.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/mandn1951/media/IMG_2863_zpsw3hqmia9.jpg.html)

[Scott Evans]

Get some Iosso and go to town on that freebore.

[Zero333]

Looks to me like you probably have short freebore.

You can be "in the lands" and not feel it. I have chambers were I can be in the lands 0.020" and still not be jamming the bullet in the rifling. Meaning... extracting the live round feels no different than one that is jumping the bullet to the lands.

[Texas10]

This marking you are describing was a mystery to me too, until I got out my endoscope camera and looked into the throat. I wasn't cleaning well enough and carbon had encrusted the throat.

A chamber brush mounted on a section of cleaning rod, an electric drill and some Carbon Cutter soaking overnight did the job as verified by the camera.

If you don' t have one, I'd highly recommend getting one. I like the Snap-On BK5500 as a great stand alone unit. Won't go down the tube, but will allow you to look into the throat, and by running a cleaning rod in from the muzzle end and letting the camera light reflect off the brass end, you get a fantastic view of the first few inches of rifling.

The Snap-On can be had for about a hundred bucks on eBay. Other endoscope cameras can be had for as little as $20 and will fit into a 22 cal bore, but don't have as good a resolution and have to plug into a Lap Top for power and viewing.

Honestly, I don't know how any hand loader can do without one. Being able to clearly see the chamber, throat, leade, rifling and looking down the muzzle for copper is an absolute must for me, but that may be my ADHD kicking in.

The other thing I did was drill and tap the primer pocket in a fire formed case. I seat a bullet long, screw on a section of cleaning rod, and chamber it. Easy to feel it stick in the lands. Seat a bit deeper and try again until no stick. You can also spin the cartridge and get execellent marks on the Ogive that help with diagnosis.

That worked better an any other method I'd tried, including the Hornaday OAL gage. But then I took the Hornaday modified cartridge, neck sized it and did the same with it screwed on the OAL gage. Worked exactly the same with the exception I had to measure the base to shoulder difference between my FF brass and the Hornaday and adjust my Base to Ogive dimension accordingly to get a good OAL to the lands measurement. It works just as well, but just another step.

With these tools, I am no longer guessing as to what is going on with seating depth, and have had to re-write all the dimensions I previously thought I "knew". Some loads I thought were .015 off the lands were actually pretty deep into the lands. Made a big difference in consistency of groups to actually know what is going on in the chamber.
YMMV

[WV1951]

Thanks for the info from above. One thing I didn't consider, is that just because one is not touching the lands, does not mean it is not "into the lands". I thought that .020, .015, etc. off the lands meant literally that. It would be that measurement from actually touching the lands.
Texas10. Great idea on the brush and drill idea. Also, never thought of rigging up a spent case on a cleaning rod and insert. That is a good tip. I bet others reading this will say "never thought of that". I am not going to get "too' serious about this, just looking for some consistent groups, while learning the reloading thing.

[m12lrs]

Looks to me like you probably have short freebore.

You can be "in the lands" and not feel it. I have chambers were I can be in the lands 0.020" and still not be jamming the bullet in the rifling. Meaning... extracting the live round feels no different than one that is jumping the bullet to the lands.

And how do you know you are .020 into the lands

[tcoz]

I tried a few methods for determining distance to the lands in my FCP-SR and never could get consistent and repeatable results. I ended up buying a Hornady OAL gauge and instead of using one of their modified cases I made one from one of my fire-formed cases. Accurate results are easily and quickly obtained with this tool.