View Full Version : Tried something old......
possum1
08-20-2010, 03:02 PM
New to me though. Alway's wondered if it would make a difference in a cheap stocked hunting rifle I shoot off the bench most of the time and it did. Tried annealing some old R-P brass I had and uniforming the flash hole. Alway's thought it was a crock, but the grouping proved me wrong. I'll do every case now, not that much more prepping to a case as far as I'm concerned, made me happy ;D
buyobuyo
08-20-2010, 03:22 PM
Congrats. Annealing can do quite a bit for accuracy on brass that has been fired a number of times because it softens the necks which helps uniform neck tension. I would venture to say that the majority of the improvement came from the annealing and not from the flash hole deburring.
I'll start annealing once I get 2-3 firings on my brass.
dolomite_supafly
08-20-2010, 05:35 PM
By uniformeing the primer pocket and flash holes my SD seemed to shrink. I have a bunch of brass that is due for its firsta annealing so I will see how things work out when I do that. I normally did not pay attention to accuracy with the annealed cases as they were for a AR. But now I am working on loads for a Savage and trying to squeeze as much a I can out of it.
So far I have shot a 7 shot group that measured .362" CTC. The reason for 7 shot is I fire 10 shots then remove the 3 worst to remove me from the equation.
Dolomite
So far I have shot a 7 shot group that measured .362" CTC. The reason for 7 shot is I fire 10 shots then remove the 3 worst to remove me from the equation.
Dolomite
That's sneaky (and cheating).
bootsmcguire
08-20-2010, 08:32 PM
So far I have shot a 7 shot group that measured .362" CTC. The reason for 7 shot is I fire 10 shots then remove the 3 worst to remove me from the equation.
Dolomite
That's sneaky (and cheating).
I dunno, if you wanna know what you can do then yeah I guess I would say cheating, if you wanna know what the gun can do then I would say good practice. I know reading articles by Massad Ayoob (Guns Magazine, Rifle Magazine, On Target, and others I am sure), he does best 3 outta 5 for his tests. All depends on how you look at it I guess.
bushwack
08-21-2010, 10:36 AM
I took that seven out of ten shot grouping a bit further. I found my accuracy skyrocketed when I shot a one shot group ;D
gotcha
08-21-2010, 12:41 PM
Yah Yah! next you'll tell us your 30cal. bullet shot a 17 cal. hole ;D
82boy
08-21-2010, 06:07 PM
New to me though. Alway's wondered if it would make a difference in a cheap stocked hunting rifle I shoot off the bench most of the time and it did. Tried annealing some old R-P brass I had and uniforming the flash hole. Alway's thought it was a crock, but the grouping proved me wrong. I'll do every case now, not that much more prepping to a case as far as I'm concerned, made me happy ;D
Yup some of that old stuff still works. I uniform the primer pockets on every firing on my brass.(Even Lapua) I have found that I could get Winchester Remington or Federal brass to shoot very well. I uniformed the primer pockets debured the flash holes, length trimmed them and then weighed them throwing out any that did not make the 1% cut off.
http://savageshooters.com/index.php?articleview=Whats the Big Deal About Weighing Cases?
I anneal all my brass after a few firings.
dolomite_supafly
08-22-2010, 06:51 AM
I was more concerned with finding what load the RIFLE shot best. By taking those flyers out of the equation it takes me out of the equation when working on load development. After that, I know that if I get a flyer shooting my 5 shot groups it is ME and not the rifle.
For me it is all about finding what the rifle is capable of and not so much what I am capable of. If all I ever shoot is the 3 or 5 shot groups I have no way of knowing whether it is me or the rifle that is having a crappy day. By tossing out the 3 worst it also tosses me out of the equation.
I would sometimes get frustrated before I started doing this because as the session drags on I would get tired and the groups would change. I would not know if it was the different load I was testing or me that was causing the problems. Now, even if I do have a few flyers, I can get a decent average of what the rifle is capable of wihout me in th picture.
7 shots is still 7 shots, even if I did throw out 3 of the 10 shots it is still more than most people who shoot 3 or even 5.
If I was trying to be sneaky then I would have just said a .362" group without explanation. I think by throwing out the worst 3 shots that it is one way of removing the human factor, or at least limiting the influence it has on accuracy testing of a rifle. After finding out which load is the most accurate then it is easy to determine that a crap group was caused by the nut behind it and not the rifle itself.
Here is the group in quesiton:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/3grps5aug2010.jpg?t=1282473300
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/bestsinglegroup5august2010.jpg
Dolomite
So why don't you throw out the 3 BEST shots? They could "be you" too! In my mind, throwing out shots from the group just isn't right.
dolomite_supafly
08-22-2010, 11:23 AM
The three worst shots are likely caused by me and not the rifle while the three best shots are likely the result of the inherent accuracy of the rifle. After all I am looking for the rifle's accuracy with a particular load, not mine.
I can understand if I was throwing out more but I am throwing out 3 in a 10 shot group and those 3 are likely my fault and not the rifle's. By having 7 shots as opposed to a smaller number it provides a much larger sample of what the gun should be capable of shooting.
I will be the first to admit I throw shots, especially towards the end of a shooting session. If I use the shots that are my fault then it punishes the average group size of the rifle with a particular load. All I am looking for is a number of shots that the rifle has shot well, not that I have shot well.
I am trying to find the best load for the rifle not the best load for me and by removing one variable, me thowing shots, I hope to find what the rifle shoots best.
This is load testing, it isn't anything else. I am not doing this to win a competition. I am not cheating at anything because I am not trying to win anything. I just feel this is the best way to remove me and my inconsistencies from the equation.
Dolomite
So if you admit that you throw shots, and that you want to eliminate you from the equation....HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE SHOOT IT!
dolomite_supafly
08-22-2010, 04:54 PM
And give up on pulling the trigger myself, I don't think so. Everything to me is practice, practice and more practice. Even if I am throwing shots I am still practicing. It will only get better with practice but first I need to work on what loads work the best in the rifle which is where this whole conversation started.
Whether you agree with it or not I still feel that doing it this was provides a good representation of what the rifle can do regardless of who is shooting it.
Dolomite
Not a very scientific test. To make it truly scientific, you should shoot 16 shots and then throw out the worst three AND the best three shots. That would leave you with a 10 shot group that is representative of the AVERAGE the rifle can do.
possum1
08-22-2010, 05:21 PM
Hell, why not just strap the rifle down in a gun vise and tie a string on the trigger. Take everything out of the equation ::) But wouldn't that take the fun out of it ???
dolomite_supafly
08-22-2010, 06:42 PM
Not a very scientific test. To make it truly scientific, you should shoot 16 shots and then throw out the worst three AND the best three shots. That would leave you with a 10 shot group that is representative of the AVERAGE the rifle can do.
Ok, I took the worst 3 out and the best 3 out. Turns out to be .362" because the best 3 are right in the middle of the 4 that are remaining.
Dolomite
gotcha
08-23-2010, 02:27 AM
You got that right Dolomite! Old age and treachery make up for youth and enthusiasm every time!! :D ;)
Not a very scientific test. To make it truly scientific, you should shoot 16 shots and then throw out the worst three AND the best three shots. That would leave you with a 10 shot group that is representative of the AVERAGE the rifle can do.
Ok, I took the worst 3 out and the best 3 out. Turns out to be .362" because the best 3 are right in the middle of the 4 that are remaining.
Dolomite
Great shooting. Now you are on the right track with scientific analysis! ;D
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