308 and RL-17

[bearcatrp]

Anyone try RL-17 with 308? Since I have an abundance of RL-17 after selling my creedmoor, figure try to use it. Looks like it will be good for 200 gr but not the best for 175 or so. Decided to load up some 178 ELD-X and see how it shoots. May try it with the 200 gr ELD-X I have also. My go to powder is varget/4064.

[darkker]

Only used it in the Creed so far, so not much help to you there.
On a side note, Hodgy has swapped suppliers yet again. So far that I've had my grubby mitts on, here is what I can caution you.
IMR 4064 in the 1# jugs is still coming from General Dynamics out of the Quebec plant. But they 8# kegs since late last fall were coming from Rhinemetal. So they aren't the same thing, keep that in mind when reloading.

[Pitbull]

Only used it in the Creed so far, so not much help to you there.
On a side note, Hodgy has swapped suppliers yet again. So far that I've had my grubby mitts on, here is what I can caution you.
IMR 4064 in the 1# jugs is still coming from General Dynamics out of the Quebec plant. But they 8# kegs since late last fall were coming from Rhinemetal. So they aren't the same thing, keep that in mind when reloading.
This is good to know.....thanks for the heads up.

[bearcatrp]

Thanks Darkker. I still have about 6 lbs of 4064 left so good for awhile there. Weird hodgdon would do that. RL-17 worked great for my 6.5 creedmoor. Kind of miss that rifle but having fun with the 338.

[darkker]

Thanks Darkker. I still have about 6 lbs of 4064 left so good for awhile there. Weird hodgdon would do that. .
Unfortunately, that isn't unusual for them at all. They have switched a few times just in the past 20-30 years. Not meant disparagingly, but all they have ever been is a reseller/surplus blender. So whomever has a burning rate closest, and will make a deal gets the nod.

Rhinemetal makes some decent powder, so I don't claim it will be a mess; just that it isn't the same thing. Then again most people think that H335 and Bl-c(2) are fundamentally different powders, so maybe the average Joe wouldn't notice the change.:rolleyes:

[hardnosestreetcop]

Thanks Darkker this is good to know about the IMR-4064 I use a lot it for my 168 Gr BTHP loads, reading the label's will surely pay off.
Bearcatrp according to the Alliant site RL-17 is used in the .308 with the 150 Gr Speer BTSP 50.0 @2763 FPS, with 165 Gr Speer BTSP 50.0 Grs @2739 FPS and with 180 Gr Speer BSTP 48.7 @ 2641 FPS from a 24 inch barrel and OAL for each one is 2.800, using Federal Brass & 210 primers. There's no data for a 200 Gr.

[bearcatrp]

Here is a pic for the 200 gr ELD-X (mods delete if this is a no no). I just loaded some up yesterday to try along with the 178 ELD-X. Just have to wait for a nice weekend again to go.
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt92/bearcatrp/IMG_2457_zpsnihhanoy.jpg (http://s601.photobucket.com/user/bearcatrp/media/IMG_2457_zpsnihhanoy.jpg.html)

[RC20]

I use it and like it in 308 and 30-06 (Hornady was the first bullet manual I saw that showed it for 06 and with the new edition 308)

I am shooting 168s right now and I get some fantastic results at times.

The ones that are not I don't know if its me or the powder. I put some 4 into one and then a flyer.

I have a few 3/8 by 5 groups and more 1/2 and 5/8 by five with it.

H168M and H168SMX. I don't know you will get anything under that but that seems to be worth it.

I have some 175 Sierras on the way and will see how it likes those.

I tend to think its me, I used to get once in 30 to 50 great group of 3/8then back to a lot of 1 inch.

I have upped the gear (Savage) and good barrel and now its all under 1 inch unless I am load development (or a bad day) and 3/8 are two to 4 a range session and most are under 5/8 MOA.

I am loading up 50 for the XC Bull barrel Savage this am and off to the range in a couple of hours.

Warm spell and clearing up, might be a great day.

[bearcatrp]

If you have a chronograph, could you post the data? I shoot 178 ELD and now working up loads for the 178 and 200 ELD's with RL-17. Hope it works out since I have 8 lbs of it.

[darkker]

Thanks Darkker this is good to know about the IMR-4064 I use a lot it for my 168 Gr BTHP loads, reading the label's will surely pay off.
Bearcatrp according to the Alliant site RL-17....

Unfortunately labels won't give you that much, unless you know which Defense Contractor owns what. RL-17 is also made by Rhinemetal, IIRC in their Swiss plant under the Nitrochemie name.

[bearcatrp]

Darkker, is there a web site that lists the information on powders and plants so us reloaders can monitor it? If it wasn't for you posting this stuff, we would not know.

[darkker]

Not that I'm aware of, just been chasing and had an "in" with GD for a long while.
MZ5 and I did a compilation a while ago, I'll repost, with some edits at the bottom:

General Dynamics American company that makes all Canadian-made IMR rifle powders, all Winchester Ball powders, some Accurates, the Alliant shpericals (PowerPro), and some Hodgdons.

ATK American company that apparently makes all American-made Alliant pistol/shotgun powders (the flake powders, basically).

Thales French company that owns ADI, makes all of Hodgy's "Extreme" rifle powders, plus some IMRs. At least 27% owned by the State of France, and 25.9% owned by Dassault.

Rheinmetall German owner of Nitrochemie. Makes Reloder-17. Don't know about other commercial powders.

Groupe SNPE French State-owned. Makes all Bofors (most of the Reloder line, and the Norma line) and Ramshot powders via their Eurenco layer.

Nammo Makes Vihtavuori powders, pending regulatory approval of purchase from Eurenco. Nammo is owned 50/50 by the State of Norway and Patria group. Patria is 73.2% owned by the State of Finland, 26.8% by Airbus Industries. So, Nammo is 50% Norwegian, 36.6% Finnish, and 13.4% French.

The exceptions to the above, are a few fold.
--ATK. They FORMERLY had the Radford Arsenal contract, which had a JV with General Dynamics (Something like new river energetics). That is a rocket and mortar propellant plant, where the pistol and shotgun powders came from. They lost that contract to B.A.E. (British Aerospace), so I don't know for sure where those powders are coming from; not a pistol/shotgun reloader so I haven't chased it.
--General Dynamics. As I previously stated, Hodgdon has begun sourcing IMR 4064 from Rhinemetal in the 8# jugs. Also they totally rebuilt/replaced the former IMR plant in Quebec a bit over a year ago. That new production capability is where the "Enduron" bit comes from. So how much that has changed the old standby names you know, who knows. Also probably a reason Hodgdon swapped a supplier. They also were brought in to get ATK's proverbial "Poop in a group" at the Lake City plant during the Sandbox skirmishes, since ATK wasn't able to produce what was ordered. One of the reasons that ATK lost the Radford contract. How much involvement they still have is unknown.
--Thales. Through their ADI plant in Australia, they entered a J.V. with General Dynamics something like a couple years now. They were asking for powder tech help with powder development, and of course GD gets to market in the area as a return. Haven't seen anything obviously new come from that just yet, but we are the waste market for the Defense Contractors.

[S. Blair]

RL-17 works great with the 208gr A-max and ELD-M, I have them going 2700+ @ sea level out of a stock 10BA.

[bearcatrp]

Not at home now to check but don't recall any load data or the 208 but will check when I get home. The 200 ELD-X showed the best load using RL-17. Hoping the weather gets better so when I get back from Cozumel, will be ready to hit the range with the 178's and 200's. May do a batch of the 208's too while I am at it. What's your load data on the 208's? Was only able to get 2381 fps using 39.6 gr of varget.

[RC20]

I ran some R-17 through the 30-06 with the 175 Sierra Match, it seemed to like it.

More consistent groups though the 308 gets some great ones it also seems to throw one fairly regularly.

Reports are it likes heavier bullets so that may be the ticked.

Its going to be one of my try loads in the 7.5 Swiss (which I am calling a 308 WUM, aka Winchester Ultra Mag due to the case shape) that has more case capacity than the 308 and with heavier bullets might be a treat.

[bearcatrp]

Got out today to try RL-17 since I have an abundance of it after selling my 6.5 creedmoor. Shot with my savage 10T w/24 inch bull barrel and 5R rifling. 48 degrees with about 8 mph wind. Hornady Match brass and CCI 200 primers.

Labradar chronograph, 100 yard range

200 gr ELD-X
46.2 gr @2591.8 fps (avg 5 shots) *Best group*
46.4 gr @2592.7 fps
46.6 gr @2613.7 fps
46.8 gr @2608.8 fps
47.0 gr @2608.7 fps *2nd best group* Highest recorded was 2638 fps

187 ELD-X
48.5 gr @2745.2 fps (avg 5 shots)
48.7 gr @2760.6 fps
48.9 gr @2777.9 fps
49.1 gr @2793.8 fps
49.3 gr @2802.1 fps *Best group* Highest recorded was 2810 fps

[RC20]

What size groups?

K31 is about here so I get to try it out though I suspect I will need a scope mount to be able to shoot it (iron sights do not do well, I can do ok with a peep but that's a in front of the receiver sight. Peep stuff for it can be had but expensive and still hard to shoot real well.

[bearcatrp]

Second pic i cheaped out and plugged the holes. But you can pretty much figure the shots. Will be going a bit further with the 200 ELD's. Already have my pet load with varget for the 178's. The top targets was shot with something else. The bottom 5 is what I used.
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt92/bearcatrp/IMG_2769_zpsbrmcpuhp.jpg (http://s601.photobucket.com/user/bearcatrp/media/IMG_2769_zpsbrmcpuhp.jpg.html)
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt92/bearcatrp/IMG_2770_zpsjuzk4goy.jpg (http://s601.photobucket.com/user/bearcatrp/media/IMG_2770_zpsjuzk4goy.jpg.html)

[bearcatrp]

Went back out to see how far I can push it with RL-17. Just the 200 gr ELD-X. Unfortunately it was 15-25 mph winds so groupings sucked due to the target rocking back and forth.
47.3 gr @2676.7 fps (3 shot average)
47.6 gr @2681.9 fps
47.9 gr @2688.5 fps
48.2 gr @2703.8 fps
48.5 gr @2716.9 fps (Best group)
Used Lapua brass. Primers looked good but can see light rings on bottom of brass so I know I am pushing it a bit.

Decided to post the target. Bottom target is load development with 208 ELD-M and IMR 4166. Top is the 200 ELD-X.
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt92/bearcatrp/IMG_2782_zpscn8zblic.jpg (http://s601.photobucket.com/user/bearcatrp/media/IMG_2782_zpscn8zblic.jpg.html)