Accuracy expectations 16 LW hunter

[Boondoggle]

Picked up a model 16 Lightweight Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor (20" barrel) to replace a 6.5 Grendel I was hunting with. First light tapered barrel rifle I've owned and it is a hunting rifle so what should my expectations for accuracy? Can it be a consistent 1-MOA gun with hand loads or is that unrealistic? Groups with factory ammo have been as small as just under an inch to just under two inches.

I don't want to spend a bunch of time and components on load development looking for the results of my long range HB rifles if that's really unrealistic.

[m12lrs]

Easy 1 moa probably better

Good for at.least 3 shots before the barrel heats up.

Fine for a hunting rifle

[jpdown]

I've got a Savage 16 LWH in 7mm08. It will shoot 0.65" MOA for 3 shots with hand loads (Varget; 140 gr. Berger VLD) before groups open up due to hot barrel. I upgraded the plastic trigger guard to metal. I bedded the action and recoil lug and filled the first stock forearm well on the plastic factory stock using Devcon plastic steel epoxy.

[Boondoggle]

Doh! When I shot an OCW today with 129gr ABLRs I didn't think enough about how long to let the barrel cool. That explains the higher grain loads opening up.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

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[Adirondack]

i have the 111LWH in 30-06. It will consistently print 1" or better groups. It shoots 150gr Hornady Interlock and Sierra Gamekings to the same point of impact.

I hoped it would shoot Grand Slams, but with the same powder charge they shot 3" groups. They also were noticeably louder and recoiled harder. I shot 3 and pulled the rest.

I broke my trigger Guard last fall. Other than that, it has been great. Two years ago I took my longest off-hand shot at my largest buck at almost 200 yards. I didn't even have time to turn up my scope. I was astonished when we walked up to it and the impact was right where I aimed.

[Boondoggle]

Thanks for all the help and info. I was also wondering whether to run a high BC bullet or a classic hunting bullet like a SGK. Good to know both have produced good results.

[RC20]

Something to check is the diameter of the end of the barrel.

If its the standard profile that they use for 30-06 etc, then for a pencil barrel you have a heavier barrel than someone (me) who got a LWH in 270.

I have had one in 30-06 and the 270. Neither one has shot well. I am going to pursue that this summer on the 270 and see if I can hand load something up that does for 3 shots.

[Adirondack]

Something to check is the diameter of the end of the barrel.

If its the standard profile that they use for 30-06 etc, then for a pencil barrel you have a heavier barrel than someone (me) who got a LWH in 270.

I have had one in 30-06 and the 270. Neither one has shot well. I am going to pursue that this summer on the 270 and see if I can hand load something up that does for 3 shots.

Do you still have the 30-06? I have had great luck with middle of the road loads of H4350. I run 57.5 grains with Remington Brass. It doesn't seem to be fussy about what you feed it for a powder charge. I was running 62 grains, but saw no reason to push it so hard when most of my hunting is done in close quarters.

Mine is definitely the small profile barrel. I have a Remington model seven also and the two barrels have the same diameter at the muzzle. My 116 trophy Hunters in 30-06 and 223 have the normal (larger) profile barrel.

I will offer my son his choice of my rifles in two years when he can hunt. I am afraid I know which one he will choose. I'll just have to buy another one, that's all. My next one might be a 270 or 260.

[J.Baker]

The marketing nitwits for most manufacturers have brainwashed everyone into believing they have to have a free floated barrel to get any kind of accuracy these days. That's all fine and dandy when you have a heavy contour barrel that isn't as easily affected by harmonics, but it's a different game with lightweight sporter barrels. Look at most any sporter weight hunting rifle (and even most military rifles) made before the mid 1970's and you will find that the vast majority of them will have a high spot at the end of the barrel channel in the forend that contacts the barrel and serves as a pressure point. That pressure point helps tune the barrel harmonics by shortening the wave length and thus helping to control barrel whip. It's simply an older method to get the same effect offered by a LimbSaver Barrel Deresonator (https://www.limbsaver.com/product/limbsaver-barrel-de-resonator/).

Now if you're like me and don't care for the look of a big rubber doughnut on your barrel you can just add a pressure point in the forend under the barrel like they did in the old days. It's easy and simple enough to try out and experiment with and you don't have to make any permanent modifications to your rifle to do so. Simply use a folded up strip of paper or card stock to test with, using different thicknesses and placements until you find the best results.

[Boondoggle]

Interesting you bring up barrel harmonics. I was using a Magnetospeed V3 but even with the tapered barrel adapter and cranking down on the strap after one round of charge weight (4 shots) I'd have to reposition the bayonet which I'm sure was affecting POI as it moved.

After looking at the OCW target again it looks like a node between 42.2 and 42.4. The two groups are about 1 3/4" but POI for both are almost identical. Between the wind, bayonet and me not letting the barrel cool enough I think I'll load for that node and shot it without the V3 and give it more time between shots

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[jpdown]

I've been playing with Savage LWH models since they where introduced. The light weight, increased recoil and muzzle jump with the 20" or 22" factory sporter barrels make it much more difficult to consistently shoot small groups with any LW rifle. I've owned a couple of Remington model 7's in 260 and 308. I never could get either Remington model 7 to shoot less than 1" groups with hand loads. I've had much better success with the Savage LWH rifles (260, 7mm08 and 280AI).

[RC20]

Do you still have the 30-06? I have had great luck with middle of the road loads of H4350. I run 57.5 grains with Remington Brass. It doesn't seem to be fussy about what you feed it for a powder charge. I was running 62 grains, but saw no reason to push it so hard when most of my hunting is done in close quarters.

Mine is definitely the small profile barrel. I have a Remington model seven also and the two barrels have the same diameter at the muzzle. My 116 trophy Hunters in 30-06 and 223 have the normal (larger) profile barrel.

I will offer my son his choice of my rifles in two years when he can hunt. I am afraid I know which one he will choose. I'll just have to buy another one, that's all. My next one might be a 270 or 260.

No, I sold that barrel. I still have the 270 though.

That said, the Shilen 30-06 Bull like 4350 a lot (IMR in this case) .

270 is general fond of 4350 as well so that's where I will start.

I am going to wait until its warm though! Was shooting at 5 deg Saturday. Not bad as we do have a covered shed with quartz tube heaters, but that is getting to my limit.


My wife has put suspenders on my Alaska Pipeline Down pants, I think they were rated -60 or so. Sitting still that was good.



My water was freezing in the shed despite the heaters.


It was a gorgeous sunny day though.

[Model16LWH]

I have a 16 LWH in 6.5 Creedmoor and it shoots sub MOA all day with factory Hornady.


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[bdmhntr58]

If this should be a separate topic(s)..Sorry, but The weather was good yesterday and I and my buddy got out and shot our 308's for the first time mine model 16 his a model 14.. not being real gun guys yet were super surprised that ammo made such a difference..also from previous posts wondering if sometimes we shot too many times 5-8 before changing up did we possibly overheat the barrels and not get accurate results because?? we did finally decide on hornady sst 165 gr ammo. we shot maybe 50 to 60 rounds each 10 to 15 of the hornaday, and I was more than happy with our initial outing. I am wondering though how many rounds should be shot before one gets to where you can trust that everything is settled in and will repeat time after time? at the end I did check my action srews and they were still good however my buddy's were quite loose..we did seem to have a lot more difficulty getting his consistent than mine. was the loose screws a big deal?
getting back to the original topic though we did shoot some shots at 300 yards and were able to keep a 3-4" group which I would say is pretty decent for a hunting rifle.. sorry to ramble on but all of this is very new and not sure how to evaluate our results.. Boondoggle my experience was good hope yours is also..

[Boondoggle]

No worries bdmhntr58. Always interested in real world results. The loose action screws are definitely an issue. That and scope mount and rings are the first things to check if something seems off.

Glad to hear your rifle found a load it likes. I picked up a 10 FCP SR a week after the LW hunter. It shoots Hornady 140 and 147 gr factory ELD match at 3/4 MOA and I'm sure it'll be a 1/2 MOA gun with hand loads.

Just got to find what my LWH likes.



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[dranrab]

My LWH 223 has made one trip to the range for sighting in and two 3 shot groups for accuracy.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/PaulBarnard/KIMG0271_zpswoliro0d.jpg

[Newtosavage]

Doh! When I shot an OCW today with 129gr ABLRs I didn't think enough about how long to let the barrel cool. That explains the higher grain loads opening up.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

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My current "lightweight hunter" is a Ruger Hawkeye 77 with an 18.5" pencil-thin barrel. It's good for two shots, and that's it. But if I let the barrel cool between shots, I can routinely print sub-MOA groups with it, all the way out to 300 yards. If I don't let the barrel cool, it starts stringing on the 3rd shot, every time. Range trips can take a while. Good thing I have plenty of other toys to bring to occupy my time while that Ruger barrel cools. ;)

[Newtosavage]

The marketing nitwits for most manufacturers have brainwashed everyone into believing they have to have a free floated barrel to get any kind of accuracy these days. That's all fine and dandy when you have a heavy contour barrel that isn't as easily affected by harmonics, but it's a different game with lightweight sporter barrels. Look at most any sporter weight hunting rifle (and even most military rifles) made before the mid 1970's and you will find that the vast majority of them will have a high spot at the end of the barrel channel in the forend that contacts the barrel and serves as a pressure point. That pressure point helps tune the barrel harmonics by shortening the wave length and thus helping to control barrel whip. It's simply an older method to get the same effect offered by a LimbSaver Barrel Deresonator (https://www.limbsaver.com/product/limbsaver-barrel-de-resonator/).

Now if you're like me and don't care for the look of a big rubber doughnut on your barrel you can just add a pressure point in the forend under the barrel like they did in the old days. It's easy and simple enough to try out and experiment with and you don't have to make any permanent modifications to your rifle to do so. Simply use a folded up strip of paper or card stock to test with, using different thicknesses and placements until you find the best results.

In the months that passed by last year while trying everything I could think of to get my Ruger RSI to shoot, I did mess with the forend tip "up" pressure quite a bit. Originally, the full-length Mannlicher stock had a raised area at the end of the barrel that provided this. I removed that trying to free-float the barrel and it did hurt the groups. So I went back with various types of support and the groups improved. But we're talking 4" to 2".

I later removed that stock and endcap and front sight, and dropped that action into a synthetic Ruger stock. It also had forend pressure, but the groups were still lackluster. Eventually I free floated that barrel in the synthetic stock, and torqued the hell out of the angled front action screw, and voila! Groups shrunk from 2" to 1" or better...

So I guess I still don't subscribe to the forend tip up pressure theory. Yes it can improve the performance of thin barrels, but the POI is very likely to change from trip to trip, so my preference is to free float the barrel and solve the problem at the source.