Bags or Bipods... What say you?

[SageRat Shooter]

Hello again guys,

So, now that I want to get into the long range game, I have some questions about what to use for shooting the long stuff.

I've never used a rear bag in my entire life, and mostly only a front sand bag to shoot off of at the range, when I sight in my rifle. I've never been able to get comfortable with a rear bag... All of them seem to "get in my way" or I can't get my gun on target because of the size of the front bag in relation to the rear bag doesn't put my gun at the correct height.

This is in reference to my 260 rem long range (1000+ yards) target/varmint and other things gun. If I use it in the PD town, my bench doesn't have much of a deck on it http://www.cabelas.com/product/Big-Game-Swivel-Action-Shooting-Bench/708606.uts?productVariantId=4950990&ref=212&loc=1&gclid=Cj0KEQiAw_DEBRChnYiQ_562gsEBEiQA4LcssiZFNJAj XV-2jbkzLgApCJzuMWm-D_5qdx3nJ3TjUygaAvT48P8HAQ(Big game 360 swivel), so I don't think the Bipod legs would be able to be used when I'm on the bench, nor the rear bag because of the lack of a deck. By front bag is the Champion Mini Gorilla (elevates my barrel about 5 inches).

So, I'm curious to see what ya'll think is the best way to go, what brands and height of Bipod or bag would you use, and how the heck I can get comfortable with using a rear bag. I've been able to hit Sage rats @ 450-500 yards shooting off a front bag only. I hear that using a rear bag should improve that even more.

What say you?

[yobuck]

A rear rabbit ear rear bag is pretty much essential in my opinion for most shooting.
Assuming your right handed, the left arm would be sort of circled around under the gun with the left hand controlling the rear bag.
Minor elevation adjustments can be made by squeezing/relaxing the bag.
A bipod is a good quick type of rest and always ready if needed. But it isn't better than a standard sandbag setup for shooting from a bench.
Id say stick with the front bag, but add a rear rabbit ear and get used to using it.
As for the bench, there is no one type fits all situations. We make our own, and were never 100% happy. But were very close. lol

[SageRat Shooter]

Thanks YoBuck,

I'm actually a lefty but that doesn't matter... I have bracial nerve damage in my right hand, which would be the control/grip/squeeze the rear bag hand... I have looked at the rabbit ear bags and thought they would be a good one to try, I'm just not sure which size would be stable enough without me being able to squeeze/hold it in place.... but not be so high that when I use my front bag it doesn't point my barrel at the ground 50 yards in front of the bench.

Do I just try a little Caldwell small rabbit ear? just to make sure it would fit on my shooting bench and still use my gorilla bag? or do I go with something more like a http://www.dog-gone-good.com/rabbit ear and just buy a new front bag from them as well?

Thanks for the advise as always,

[m12lrs]

Accurate Shooter has a wealth of good information. Here is one about setting your gun up on the bags. Not as simple as it seems. There is another called bugholes from a bipod.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/optimize-your-rifle-position-on-rests/

Are you just shooting from the bench or are you going to try prone.

[yobuck]

Thanks YoBuck,

I'm actually a lefty but that doesn't matter... I have bracial nerve damage in my right hand, which would be the control/grip/squeeze the rear bag hand... I have looked at the rabbit ear bags and thought they would be a good one to try, I'm just not sure which size would be stable enough without me being able to squeeze/hold it in place.... but not be so high that when I use my front bag it doesn't point my barrel at the ground 50 yards in front of the bench.

Do I just try a little Caldwell small rabbit ear? just to make sure it would fit on my shooting bench and still use my gorilla bag? or do I go with something more like a http://www.dog-gone-good.com/rabbit ear and just buy a new front bag from them as well?

Thanks for the advise as always,

I'm a lefty also, so you would be using your right to control the bag. I have seen the very small rabbit ear bag Caldwell makes but never used one.
I have one of their high front bags but I only use that when shooting at targets.
I primarily use a Protector leather rabbit ear bag filled with light weight material. You might need a different front bag setup also. There are many sizes, and even the old cloth shot bags filled make good bags. I know guys who use good strong socks filled with sand with a knot tied on them.
A wood block or several of them stacked with one bag on top will work well.
For hunting l/r deer we use a custom mechanical front rest with no bag.

[LoneWolf]

If you are unable to use a squeeze bag due to injuries to your supporting hand I would recommend a good wedge bag. Instead for squeezing it you can slide it forward and back or side to side for elevation adjustments. I run a bipod for most shooting where I can have both front and rear support, but shoot off a bag when I can not. PM me and I'll send you some pictures of the wedge bag I have. I have since retired it from use due to finding a bag that is more universal for how I shoot and compete.

[SageRat Shooter]

Accurate Shooter has a wealth of good information. Here is one about setting your gun up on the bags. Not as simple as it seems. There is another called bugholes from a bipod.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/optimize-your-rifle-position-on-rests/

Are you just shooting from the bench or are you going to try prone.

M12lrs,

Most of it will be from a bench, but I do plan on taking it out in the field for yotes, fox, etc... which at that point will probably involve shooting from the prone position. Plus, living in OR I'm going to have to hike a bit, to find a spot to stretch her legs out to 1000. There's no way I'm lugging the gorilla bag and the rifle up a mountain... That's why I was wondering about Bipods and the rear bag (field bag). or one of those little monopod stands that screws into the sling stud at the butt of the rifle.

[m12lrs]

I don't know where you live but here usually there is too much brush for hunting with the bipod. A sitting or standing position works much better. Enter shooting sticks or tripods. I can't shoot worth a flip off the sticks though.

Here are a couple of links to some neat field rest.

http://www.kopfjagerindustries.com

http://stores.hogsaddle.com/pig-saddle-1/

[SageRat Shooter]

I don't know where you live but here usually there is too much brush for hunting with the bipod. A sitting or standing position works much better. Enter shooting sticks or tripods. I can't shoot worth a flip off the sticks though.

Here are a couple of links to some neat field rest.

http://www.kopfjagerindustries.com

http://stores.hogsaddle.com/pig-saddle-1/

Sticks are worthless for me too.... I can actually shoot better off my knee in a kneeling position then I can with sticks....
That Pig Saddle looks sweet!!! That might just be the ticket for in the field... Can you tell me what tripod is the best to attach the Pig Saddle to. I thought it was a package deal (the saddle and tripod together) but it appears that the tripod is purchased separate.
thanks for the info above too, I'll start keeping my eyes open for something like those...

[yobuck]

Unless your using a light recoiling gun, both the hog saddle and the pig saddle will be poor for follow up shots.
The device actually clamps onto the gun at the balance point, so you can guess what recoil does to that setup.
And yes they do attach to a separate camera type tripod. You will find in the videos that the shooters use their off
side hand to hold down the tripod while shooting. I personaly wouldn't be wasting my money on them.
If you hunt from the same remote locations, consider building some small benches patterned after a cross leg picknic table and stash them there.
Build them at home, then disassemble them for packing to the location, then reassemble with bolts and a wrench. Kneeling height works well and will be more stable. About 20" wide and 3' long will work well. We have several of them stashed for more than 10 years at some of our spots.
If your not of the timid type, you can also do some site work by way of (ahem) pruning some (brush) with a chain saw, and using a small shovel or military entrenching tool to level a spot to shoot from. If there are nice flat rocks in the area gather up those and build a bench with them. Again, it need not be very high, kneeling height is enough. If you go to Montour County Rifles website home page, you will see one of his guns sitting on a stone bench. That's not a posed picture per se, it is located on one of his walk in hunting locations in the same area we hunt.

[LoneWolf]

I shoot from a hog saddle often. Under match conditions with multiple targets at multiple distances. The recoil characteristics do change, but they are manageable. There are a number of tricks to mitigate these issues for a more stable position and better return to target after the recoil cycle. The best possible set up is a direct mount with a plate the connect Los the rifle directly to the ball head.

Again if you want information PM me about it. I'll share, I won't get into conversations on here that some members just turn into another argument.


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[m12lrs]

Unless your using a light recoiling gun, both the hog saddle and the pig saddle will be poor for follow up shots.
The device actually clamps onto the gun at the balance point, so you can guess what recoil does to that setup.
And yes they do attach to a separate camera type tripod. You will find in the videos that the shooters use their off
side hand to hold down the tripod while shooting. I personaly wouldn't be wasting my money on them.
If you hunt from the same remote locations, consider building some small benches patterned after a cross leg picknic table and stash them there.
Build them at home, then disassemble them for packing to the location, then reassemble with bolts and a wrench. Kneeling height works well and will be more stable. About 20" wide and 3' long will work well. We have several of them stashed for more than 10 years at some of our spots.
If your not of the timid type, you can also do some site work by way of (ahem) pruning some (brush) with a chain saw, and using a small shovel or military entrenching tool to level a spot to shoot from. If there are nice flat rocks in the area gather up those and build a bench with them. Again, it need not be very high, kneeling height is enough. If you go to Montour County Rifles website home page, you will see one of his guns sitting on a stone bench. That's not a posed picture per se, it is located on one of his walk in hunting locations in the same area we hunt.


https://youtu.be/67aVxXVIC8Y


https://youtu.be/yV3gZNWU8bY

[LoneWolf]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170211/c33112812c94c9e9f467634583c6441a.jpg


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[yobuck]

Well again recoil is the culprit, and the videos do show mild rifles, not magnums. but if you can use it then id say use it.
They aren't really very expensive to experiment with.
Weve tried the ball head mounts as shown on the one video.
Problem with the ball head is side flop when its loosened for movement. Pinning the ball so that it allows for up/ down only
is a must for hunting. But the camera type ball heads as a rule wont take that.
Notice the guy said he had a cant in the gun which he corrected with the ball head.
By pinning you couldn't do that with the head, but could by leveling up with the tripod legs on initial set up.
The Wilton vice company makes a heavy duty ball head mount used for attaching a vice so that it can be positioned in different angles.
We use those rather than the monfrotto type because we can pin them as mentioned. The attachment to the gun we use, allows the gun to recoil and return on target, even the magnums. Probably not legal for competition, but again, were simply hunters.
Another thing that is never considered here is location, and the type of terrain. Notice most of the videos you see are in desert type areas, or on a
rifle range. Agreed shooting is shooting regardless, but terrain will dictate how you go about it. The target never moves but animals do, and staying on them is paramount to success. If you lost it in the scope due to recoil, finding it again in tree covered areas could pose a big problem.
It actually poses the biggest problem, which is why some spend so much time and resources trying to improve the system. It dosent take an Einstein type mind to realize shooting from your belly with a bipod is hard to improve upon. But terrain is the game changer, and it dosent take long to get to find that out.

[LoneWolf]

Military Snipers have been slaying bodies in Iraq and Afghanistan with the Hog Saddle for the last decade. A few improved variations have since come with out, but its understanding how to use the equipment that makes the difference. I use a heavy 55mm ball head. I would shoot a magnum off it. My intent with my set up once I get my stock in for the 2017 season is to go to a direct mount.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170211/c4c5e93647a044336e97b78290173062.jpg


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[m12lrs]

Well again recoil is the culprit, and the videos do show mild rifles, not magnums. but if you can use it then id say use it.
They aren't really very expensive to experiment with.
Weve tried the ball head mounts as shown on the one video.
Problem with the ball head is side flop when its loosened for movement. Pinning the ball so that it allows for up/ down only
is a must for hunting. But the camera type ball heads as a rule wont take that.
Notice the guy said he had a cant in the gun which he corrected with the ball head.
By pinning you couldn't do that with the head, but could by leveling up with the tripod legs on initial set up.
The Wilton vice company makes a heavy duty ball head mount used for attaching a vice so that it can be positioned in different angles.
We use those rather than the monfrotto type because we can pin them as mentioned. The attachment to the gun we use, allows the gun to recoil
and return on target, even the magnums. Probably not legal for competition, but again, were simply hunters.
Another thing that is never considered here is location, and the type of terrain. Notice most of the videos you see are in desert type areas, or on a
rifle range. Agreed shooting is shooting regardless, but terrain will dictate how you go about it. The target never moves but animals do, and staying on them is paramount to success. If you lost it in the scope due to recoil, finding it again in tree covered areas could pose a big problem. It actually
poses the biggest problem, which is why some spend so much time and resources trying to improve the system. It dosent take an Einstein type mind
to realize shooting from your belly with a bipod is hard to improve upon. But terrain is the game changer, and it dosent take long to get to find that out.

50 cal


https://youtu.be/O3K1ueGsDTM

[yobuck]

Well again, if it works for you for what you do that's wonderfull. It dosent work at least (well) for what we do and where we do it.
Some guy with his hat on backwards shooting a 50, dosent prove anything for me. The videos are about selling a product, period.
I would definatly advise someone trying one to see if it works for what you do.
If size and weight aren't an issue, there would be several tripod systems I feel are better and ive mentioned them before.
One would be the Lone Star made in Texas, and the other the Ultimate Tripod made in Pa.
First off, these are designed as shooting systems, and not another and adapted to shooting as is a Monfrotto tripod or any other camera type tripod.
Not knocking Monfrotto as they are a very good tripod, but there are better for shooting.
Three years ago, 3 of us hunting together, killed 3 bucks in less than 3 minits with the same gun using an ultimate tripod.
Distances ranged from 635 to just about 750 due the them moving after we spotted 4 bucks together.
That would be impossible to do using any other type shooting system.

[m12lrs]

This one

http://www.mcfaden.com/mobile/Category.aspx?id=1829

I like it. A little heavy though

[yobuck]

This one

http://www.mcfaden.com/mobile/Category.aspx?id=1829

I like it. A little heavy though

This is the one I have and was used to kill the 3 bucks in very short order.
I actually took a day and the guns I intended to use on it directly to their shop.
I bought both high and low legs, but so far have only used the high ones for stand up shooting.
They also have various wood setups for different stock dimensions and a flat one for the rear which can be used in conjunction with a rabbit ear bag. A word of caution would be that about a 20# gun would be max for the device to work well. Lighter guns of coarse pose no problem.
Another thing is with most tripod setups you will not have as rock solid hold as with a bench or prone bipod. Maybe I should say most people wont. Therefore i would not recommend these for serious group or score shooting.
I would also not recommend them for extreme distance shooting. They serve a certain purpose as in getting it from a vehicle and getting it set up
very quickly on any type terrain. And they are (good enough) to do some accurate shooting for long range hunting.
My every day hunting companion for many years, happens to also be the first man ever inducted into the hall of fame at Williamsport. So he is a shooter as well as a hunter, and has frankly been a teacher also. He was also involved with the quick 3 buck kill.
He bought the Lone Star tripod setup, so we do have both to compare. I believe his might be just a tad better than mine, but there is still a little movement of the cross hair on the target. Again, they are not designed for small group shooting.
Another thing is you can move much faster when your standing as opposed to other positions. And sometimes that becomes a very important issue
when hunting. And thats especially so in advanced years and after joint replacments.
I have since buying my tripod, and also using the Lone Star, built several of my own using very good military tripods which we tend to use for other things as well.
The first one I built by myself, it works well for the lighter guns and is more portable than the larger Ultimate Tripod, although overall not as good.
The most recent, is actually the real deal ultimate tripod, and cost me over $600 to have built by a machinist who also had input into the design.
Thats not including my own time, and the initial cost of the military tripod. But it is as solid as my portable bench, and it will support the larger guns.
But we can still improve on even this one, and if I can find another tripod just like this one, I will.
Bottom line to all this is it depends on the individual as to what they do, are satisfied with, and how much time, effort, and money they are willing to
spend.

[SageRat Shooter]

Thanks for the advice and information guys.... As much as I'd like a hog saddle setup with a tripod, I can't fathom spending more for a shooting platform then I did on my entire rifle (or close to it)... I do appreciate al the options ya'll have given me.

There's a much cheaper platform that Cabelas has that might work.... I don't care for the bulkiness or the weight, but $100 to $200 is all I'm willing to spend for that... May have to consider just carrying a larger puffy day pack that I can shoot prone from, and just carry a rear bag.

Thanks,