Anyone here shooting mild loads in an old Savage 110?

[kimberkook]

I like to shoot rifles that make big holes in paper targets. I love rimfire, but centerfire is a great diversion. I think I’ve found the recipe for make this possible without beating myself up…

Earlier this week I picked up my fourth old “time capsule” Savage 110 sporter. This one happens to be an early ‘80s model in 7mm-08 Win, the 7mm version of the 308. My other three are also of this vintage and are also close to new condition: 223 Rem, 270 Win and 30.06 Spr. I purchased all online, since what I tend to see in LGSs are ARs and other black guns. Old School is getting hard to find. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif

Besides being relatively cheap to buy, what really impresses me about these old Savage 110s is their accuracy. It’s amazing! OK, I know “accuracy” means different things to different people. To me, it’s consistently putting bullets in cloverleaf groups or tighter in paper targets at relatively short distances, say up to 200 yards, but mostly 100 and 50 yards. I only use hand loaded ammo, and for the larger calibers, reduced loads using only "cowboy" powder, Trail Boss from Hodgdon/IMR.

As a geezer with a sore shoulder, I’m not interested in max velocity, flat trajectories and terminal destructive capability, only accuracy that doesn’t beat me up. I know these old Savages can handle the heavy loads, but I can’t very often, and I like to shoot a lot. Trail Boss loads make that possible for me. No, Hodgdon is not paying me to endorse their product or claim it’s the only way to go for creating mild loads, it's just one way of having fun with these traditional hunting caliber guns without going with conventional ammo.

If anyone else here is into shooting mild loads in old 110s or other old school rifles, please share your experiences, preferences for loads, targets, whatever. If you’re interested in the load recipes I use, I’ll post them here. They're pretty much what Hodgdon's online load data site recommends. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RC20]

There used to be quite a lot of data on reduced loads back in the 20s to 50s as I rther, its coming back some now and that's a plus.

While my shoulder is fine (we won't talk about the back!) I am pretty much on a 100 yd range, there is no benefit to flat shooter, I am not hunting anymore (see the back) so the velocity is not an issue.

So I have played with lower velocity loads. I usually start my work up low and when I find a node, I stick with it rather than work up.

There are cautions out there about reduced loads with regular rifle powder and an over pressure problem possible.

H4895 is lists as being good to 60% loads, I have played with that a bit but had not found accuracy for the ones I did.

There is a group that shoots hard cast lead in the sub 2200 fps ranges (with gas checks)

Its an area that I hope keeps developing.

[Robinhood]

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf

[kimberkook]

Robinhood has nailed it with this link. I've loaded Trail Boss for six different cartridges on this list and have found my own "rule of thumb" for what works well for me: 78% of the max load they list for any given cartridge when using the Sierra flat-based "Pro-Hunter" bullets that meet the Hodgdon spec in these recipes. I tested this 78% rule recently with the 7mm-08 and didn't have to adjust a thing. It worked perfectly! It gives new meaning to "uncanny" for me :-)

[RC20]

What kind of accuracy are you getting?

[kimberkook]

What kind of accuracy are you getting?
5-shot groups are usually within 1/2 MOA if I don't blow it. Frankly, it's been very surprising to me just how accurate these loads are in these basic, mass produced rifles.

I had the 7mm-08 out this morning. At a friend's suggestion, I call him Lucky :-) It's hard to believe that he's over 30 years old!

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc275/kimberkook/Lucky/Lucky-left_zps5bjic8ba.jpg

[Robinhood]

I love those flatbacks. Most of them cycled better than today's actions IMHO

[Maztech89]

I know nothing about reduced loads but just want to say that's a beautiful looking rifle especially considering its age. I'd take one of those over a new round back any day.

[kimberkook]

I know nothing about reduced loads but just want to say that's a beautiful looking rifle especially considering its age. I'd take one of those over a new round back any day.
I wish I could take credit for the Savage 110 design. I really like them, too, especially these old ones with blued barrels and matte finish actions. Even the old 3-screw triggers are nice. When I first started buying these old models, I wondered if I was doing the right thing. With freight and FFL transfer fees the costs get close to or exceed the new plastic-stocked models sold at the big box stores. If I add in the cost of a nice stock like a Bell and Carlson we're getting up in the $$$ range of new the AccuTrigger/AccuStock models. But when I handle the new ones they really leave me cold---- just no personality. I guess it's obvious that my attitude about these has nothing to do with utility, just feel-good fun :nevreness:

[kimberkook]

Here are the other oldies. They're sort of color coded by their Bell and Carlson stocks. I kept their original "hardwood" stocks, but the B&Cs certainly contribute to accuracy. Highly recommended upgrade. I can see why the Cooper folks use them in their Phoenix series. :)


Dorian, the 270 Win
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc275/kimberkook/Dorian/IMG_4928_zpsdflbto3x.jpg


SnotSix, the 30.06
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc275/kimberkook/SnotSix/IMG_4881_zpsb84b8kto.jpg


NoNeck, the 223
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc275/kimberkook/NoNeckToo/IMG_4903_zpsznenozmb.jpg

[RC20]

5-shot groups are usually within 1/2 MOA if I don't blow it. Frankly, it's been very surprising to me just how accurate these loads are in these basic, mass produced rifles.

I had the 7mm-08 out this morning. At a friend's suggestion, I call him Lucky :-) It's hard to believe that he's over 30 years old!

Savage has had a reputation for being darn accurate. Smooth inside no, but accurate.

If the loads can shoot 1/2 MOA then I am more than happy with that.

[upinthehills]

Thanks for starting this thread, I've been wondering about exactly this. I can concentrate on aiming at my local 100 yd range instead of beating myself up until my moral and accuracy improve.

Is this powder as clean as the other stuff?

[kimberkook]

Thanks for starting this thread, I've been wondering about exactly this. I can concentrate on aiming at my local 100 yd range instead of beating myself up until my moral and accuracy improve.

Is this powder as clean as the other stuff?
I'm glad you're interested in this topic. There are many cartridge options that Trail Boss powder covers, and since I don't intend to shoot them all (!!!) I'm hoping to learn from others who try it. I've added 222 and 223 to the list of Trail Boss loads I'm making. They're all fun.

As for how "clean" the powder is, all I can say is that it cleans up like a good target 22LR might. It's pretty clean :smile-new: I should add that the case necks seal well when fired, so there's only slight powder residue on them and no blow-back issues. All-in-all, it's pretty darn easy on everything.

[upinthehills]

Kimberhook, are you shooting lead bullets?

I've been going thru some of the pages on the Hodgdon web site. It's sort of slow progress, they don't publish every possible combination and it's hard for me to figure out when that means "you're an idiot and will soon kill yourself" or "we just haven't got around to it".

They did mention a couple of other powders for this use. I'm shooting .308 in a Model 12FV. For the Trail Boss they only publish a load for a 150 gr bullet. For the 168 gr Sierra they publish Titegroup and Clays powder loads. I think those are shotgun powders and they are producing about 1050 FPS muzzle velocity.

It's interesting to me that there don't seem to be powders that are in the middle of these two groups.

[kimberkook]

Kimberhook, are you shooting lead bullets?

I've been going thru some of the pages on the Hodgdon web site. It's sort of slow progress, they don't publish every possible combination and it's hard for me to figure out when that means "you're an idiot and will soon kill yourself" or "we just haven't got around to it".

They did mention a couple of other powders for this use. I'm shooting .308 in a Model 12FV. For the Trail Boss they only publish a load for a 150 gr bullet. For the 168 gr Sierra they publish Titegroup and Clays powder loads. I think those are shotgun powders and they are producing about 1050 FPS muzzle velocity.

It's interesting to me that there don't seem to be powders that are in the middle of these two groups.
I'm shooting jacketed bullets of the weights Hodgdon lists for Trail Boss, with one exception. I'm using a 155 gr. bullet for my 30-06 when Hodgdon just lists a load for the 150 gr. I think that what Hodgdon lists are general guidelines, so if I wanted to go with a 168 gr I'd do it. I'd probably just begin with the starting load they list for the 150 and see how it works. I'm really not interested in venturing into the world of other powders. Unlike these other powders, I have yet to see indications of pressure problems with Trail Boss. :-)