6.5 Creedmoor Build questions

[charliemeyen]

Hello everyone!

I'm about to start a build using a 10FP in .308 that I bought way back in 2007. The rifle is a blind magazine centerfeed model with the 4.4 screw spacing.

My vision for the build is a practical long range rifle, capable of shooting 1000 yards while also being portable enough to hunt with. Most of my hunting is done with archery equipment, but I do have some preference points for mulies and pronghorn in Colorado that I may use for a rifle hunt. I also may use the rifle for some precision rifle matches as time permits. I also reload, but have never dealt with any wildcats/improved cartridges.

I believe I have settled on the 6.5 creedmoor simply due to the fact that I feel the advantages of the .260 are outweighed by the abundance of good factory ammo for those times that I simply want to shoot more than I want to reload. However, if I am missing a more suitable caliber, please feel free to add any input.

As far as the build goes, I just purchased a LRP take-off HS precision stock from the classifieds with the 4.4 spacing and dbm bottom metal. I am hoping this will be compatible with my action. Should I stick with this factory dbm bottom metal, or ship the stock to CDI to have one of theirs installed?

For the barrel, I am thinking I will go with a 20" stainless match criterion or shilen prefit from NSS, although I don't know how to decide between the two. I have considered going as short as 18 and wouldn't be opposed to anything as long as 22. As long as I retain enough velocity to keep a 140 VLD supersonic to 1000, I am fine. I am considering adding a .338 Lapua stealth to my collection for ranges longer than that. I would love to hear the pros and cons of a 20 inch setup (or shorter). The barrel will be spiral fluted and threaded. Any recommendations for those services would be appreciated. I am thinking I will go with the varmint contour. Should I be considering a heavier taper? No intentions of going lighter.

As far as tools go, I planned on ordering a barrel nut wrench from NSS and a 6.5 creedmoor go gauge. Anything I'm missing? Will I need a bench vise?

Thank you to all who take the time to read this. I will make sure to update with pictures and a range report as the build progresses. Thanks for the help!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[SageRat Shooter]

Charlie,

In the 6.5 creed you'll want at least a 24" barrel if you want to carry the 140s to 1000 yards....effectively anyway.... I was kicking this same thing around for the last year or so... I'm building mine in 260 REM.... For the 6.5 Creed I think you want a least 24".

According to my calculations (Strelok Pro) with a 143 grain ELD-X with muzzle velocity of 2722 it takes almost 29 MOA of elevation @ 1000 yards. (25" barrel) 1-8 twist. I doubt you'll be able to get that velocity out of a 22" barrel.

The other thing to consider is your scope and how much elevation adjustment you'll have. With my setup I'm running the Sightron 6-24x50 FFP MOA-2 reticle that has 80 MOA of total adjustment. I had to put a 20 MOA rail on it to insure I could get to 1000 yards.

you can get there with a 22" I think... with a muzzle velocity of 2647 (3 inches less barrel @ 25 fps) I have it showing (1430 fps with 649 ft lbs of energy @ 1000) 30.75 MOA up.

[Rob01]

Yup I wouldn't go with a 20" barrel. 24" would be decent. The varmint contour is good and will balance well. Med Palma is another.

[charliemeyen]

I see. This article led me to believe I may only be giving up 80-100 fps. http://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-creedmoor-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/

I guess that begs the question as to which, if any, short action cartridge (preferably with a .308 bolt face) that would be a good fit for this build? Really wanting to stay away from the WSM family as I had a 12BVSS in .300 WSM that had incredible recoil when loaded with the 210 gr bergers.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Rob01]

Yeah that article is flawed and I have fought that out many times on facebook. That 142 velocity is about 200fps slow to start. Gaining velocity from 27" to 24" is BS. I would tell you to take that article with a grain of salt unless you want to live with the results of going 20". What happens if you get a slow barrel? Now you have a short slow barrel. You can always cut a barrel back but you can't add length.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a fine cartridge for what you want but build it right.

[charliemeyen]

I was also skeptical of the velocity loss and the low initial velocity, but I didn't know what load he was shooting or the effects of the barrel being without a crown.

I'm thinking of going 22" and being flexible with my intended projectile. If the 140 gr VLD doesn't work out, I could give the 123 gr scenar a try. I've read a few forum posts about people doing well at 1000 with a 20" tube and the 140s after experimenting with powders to get a complete and efficient burn, but I realize all of this is anecdotal and from the internet.

I'm just hesitant to go 24" from the start, having it perform exactly like I want, then continue to want a shorter rifle. Kind of backwards, I know haha.

This rifle will eventually host a suppressor and I'm really trying to make it as short as possible for that. I want to be able to shoot 1000 yards with the gun, but I have no intention of ever hunting at that distance. I would have a hard time shooting at a living animal over 500. Hunting with traditional archery equipment has taught me all too well the consequences of human error.

Thank you so much for the realistic responses. I guess now the question would be criterion or shilen? Or something else?




Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[SageRat Shooter]

I can give you a confirmed positive vote for a Criterion. I've got a heavy sporter on a 22-250 that will put 5 in a nickel @ 100 yards (probably a dime with a better shooter). I just ordered another one for the 260 Rem I mentioned earlier. If you are on the NSS website, there's an article about a guy winning an event with a Criterion (can't remember if it was F-class or BR) but that's just another testament for it.

I've also heard good things about Shilens, back when Jim Briggs was still at NSS, I asked him which he would go with between the two.... He said he'd be happy with either one.

Either way you go, I think you'll be pleased.

[darkker]

Many will argue that you can't gain Velocity as you get shorter, so something is "wrong" with the test. In fact you can, you do, and thus isn't something new. There is a while section of one of Speeds old manuals titled "Why ballisticians get grey". This same phenomenon, and argument, has been argued over the 308 since its inception. Yes, it is real; for a few cartridges. Watch some of Lowlights videos of short barreled Creed's at distance, or some of my posts.

Now here is the next thing to consider, that typically gets omitted from any practical distance discussions; bullets.
Everyone "knows" (notice the quotes) that you have to keep a bullet supersonic to your target, or the sun will never rise, and the fall of Western civilization will happen. What they don't actually know is why, or why that is not true. It stems from Camp Perry long ago, and some 168gr 30-cal bullets. What you don't get told is WHY those bullets tumble. Was from 2 things. 1) Tail angle of 13°. While that gives you a sexy BC number to sell your bullets, it ensures you get some serious turbulence at trans-sonic. 2) Center of Gravity, relative to its Center of Pressure. This coupled with the tail angle guaranteed the would be a tumbling bullet. Sierra used the military Doppler radar systems to test and build around this problem (Sorry Hornady, you aren't the first to this "tech"), which gave us the 175 SMK.
That bullet is dead stable across trans-sonic.

So now, the Creedmoor. The Nosler & Sierra 140gr bullets are also dead stable across trans-sonic. Greatly speaking from my experience at a mile, Berger struggles some due to the CG/CP issue.
So my point is, don't be afraid of ghost stories about staying supersonic. Perhaps you want to fit an application, but it isn't required for the sake of hitting the target.

[Rob01]

I am sure you could find some powder/bullet combo that you can gain speed but with the Creedmoor it's not going to happen with the proper powder and bullets combos or the one used in test. I have been shooting the cartridge since its beginning and know it well. Notice no quotes. Yes you can shoot to 1000 with a 20" Creedmoor. I know Frank, lowlight, has done it. He is a very good friend of mine for about 20 years. Jerry miculck hit 1000 yards with a 9mm. Doesn't mean it is ideal to shoot to 1000. That said if the OP was looking to get there easily with velocity to spare the 24" would be a better option but a 20" will get there.


OP if you want a 20" then go do it. It's your rifle.

[bowfishn]

As Rob01 has said there is no reason the 20" barrel won't do what you want out to 1000 yards with the right load. 20" would not be my choice, but the rifle is yours not mine. I wanted it to reach a mile so for my 6.5 Creedmoor I chose 26" barrel, needed the extra velocity.

[charliemeyen]

I appreciate all the responses. Just ordered a 26 inch 6.5 creedmoor criterion varmint contour barrel from NSS. It will be shipped to kampfield to be spiral fluted, cut to 22 inches, and threaded. Excited to get it all together. Will update once I get it all in!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Rob01]

Sounds good. Have fun with it. Try the 140 ELD-Ms when you get it in.

[charliemeyen]

Alright guys, after a lot of redneck "gunsmithing" today, I have a question. I received my HS stock yesterday (LRP takeoff) and began mounting it to the 10FP with the original .308 barrel. This rifle was a blind magazine, and the stock has the savage dbm setup. Once I got it mounted, I noticed my front action screw was about .5" too long and protruded into the action, nearly midway up the chamber. I have been cutting and dremeling the screw very slowly, and am down to .920" oal with probably .020 until I can close my bolt. The problem is, my current action screw isn't threaded all the way down, and I am down to 3 revolutions of thread remaining. Anyone have a good idea as to where I can get a 1/4 x 28 action screw this short? Or better yet, does anyone have a LRP that wouldn't mind telling me the oal of their front action screw? This seems awful short. Thanks!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[darkker]

Why not just use some washers?
Otherwise any bolt house can get you what you need.

[charliemeyen]

Well, all the parts are here. Ended up buying a mcmillan from the classifieds, so the HS is up for sale. Did find an action screw to fit it.

Unfortunately, I discovered the screws on my rifles base are stripped. Managed to get three out with a screw extractor bit, but REALLY hollowed the other one out. It is going to have to be seen by a professional this weekend.

Valuable lesson: some jobs are better left to a gunsmith, and not a very frustrated version of myself trying to be a gunsmith with a Walmart corded drill equipped with some "as seen on tv" screw extractor bits.

Hopefully the base gets removed this weekend so I can use my action wrench to put on the new barrel and get some pictures up. The spiral fluted barrel from kampfield looks really awesome.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[charliemeyen]

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r485/charliemeyen/IMG_20170210_200052783_zpsd9s9muba.jpg (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/charliemeyen/media/IMG_20170210_200052783_zpsd9s9muba.jpg.html)

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r485/charliemeyen/IMG_20170211_163703958_HDR_zpsv1n0vfek.jpg (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/charliemeyen/media/IMG_20170211_163703958_HDR_zpsv1n0vfek.jpg.html)

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r485/charliemeyen/IMG_20170211_165251565_zpskp551qpk.jpg (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/charliemeyen/media/IMG_20170211_165251565_zpskp551qpk.jpg.html)

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r485/charliemeyen/IMG_20170211_151552186_zpsgegnapyp.jpg (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/charliemeyen/media/IMG_20170211_151552186_zpsgegnapyp.jpg.html)

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r485/charliemeyen/IMG_20170211_165251565_zpskp551qpk.jpg (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/charliemeyen/media/IMG_20170211_165251565_zpskp551qpk.jpg.html)

Got the rifle all together, just waiting to cerakote now. Did some load development and shooting, and this new 130 gr ELD-M seems to be a winner. This is a load using varget at max mag length running 2700 fps with no pressure signs. 100 and 200 yard groups. Going to try to push this load for more speed, along with trying some RL-17 and the 140 eld and the 143 eld-x. Thanks for all the help! Loving the rifle.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Rob01]

Try the 130s with the RL17. You should be able to get them faster than 2700fps.

[65Whelen]

Nicely done, looks good and also shoot great. Like that spiral fluting.