22 K-Hornet and H110 vs W296 and Lee Collet Die ?

[bootsmcguire]

I am going to be loading for a 22 K-Hornet I have comming. I was thinking about H110 and Sierra 45 .224 Hornet bullets (since I have about 500 sitting on my shelf). My local shop has been out of H110, but has a couple pounds of W296. I was reading an article in the Sept 2010 Guns Magazine that was saying H110 and W296 are the exact same powder just in different cans (since they are both made by Hodgdon).

-Is H110 and W296 the same? If so then I am asumming that load data is interchangable?

-Anybody got good loads for the 22 K-Hornet with H110? or something better?

EDIT: Does the Lee Collet Die for the Hornet also work on the K-Hornet? I know the 22-250/22-250AI and 243/243AI both work through their Collet Dies respectively, just wondering about the K-Hornet.

[stevec]

A friend of mine called hogdon tech support asking about 30 carbine loads and was told that H110 and 296 were the same powder and exchange data.

Hogdons site shows the same load for 36gr bullets in to Khornet for 296 and 110 but dont list 296 for the 45gr bullets.


Steve

[stevec]

From the Sierra 5th edition

22K-Hornet

H110 start. 9.8gr Max 11.3gr
W296 start. 9.7gr Max 11.3gr

P.S. My favorite load load for the hornet is full case of IMR 4227 and seat a 46gr bullet.

Steve

[Hammer]

.

By far the best load I've ever had for the Hornet used Lil Gun powder, Hornady 35 VMAX, and small pistol primers.

Much tighter than anything else in all my Hornets.

.

[Slowpoke Slim]

Yes I agree with Hammer.

You will be shooting the #2 powder for Hornet. Everybody knows Lil Gun is the #1 powder for Hornets.

;D

It does not take much primer to light those Hornet loads. I know some guys use pistol primers. I tried them myself. I get better accuracy with the Remington 6 1/2 primers in my Hornet loads.

[bootsmcguire]

Thanks for the info guys. I have the Lee 2nd edition book and several of the free manual from the companies. None of them listed H110 and W296 for the same bullet weight so it was hard to tell if they were the same. I thought I would start with H110 just because if I don't like it I can try it in one of my 44 mags. I see that Lil Gun has pretty good speeds listed in my book. Maybe I'll just try the Lil gun. I am gonna stick with the 45gr Hornet bullets just because I have those 500 sitting on my shelf (I inherrited all of my grandfathers stock of bullets and dies). I think in the long run I will switch over to 35 or 40 grain bullets (once I run out of Hornets) probably V-Max since I have had good luck with them in 222,223, and 22-250. I also have some 6 1/2 and Federal Small pistol primers so I can try both ways.

Thanks for the advice guys, looks like a good place to start. Anyone else feel free to give your $.02 :)

[stevec]

[quote
EDIT: Does the Lee Collet Die for the Hornet also work on the K-Hornet? I know the 22-250/22-250AI and 243/243AI both work through their Collet Dies respectively, just wondering about the K-Hornet.
[/quote]


I dont know about that. If the shoulder jct is blown forward, then it will not work. I have never looked at a Khornet up close.
If you are shooting it in a breakover, I would suggest FL sizing.

Steve

[bootsmcguire]

It's a bolt gun, not a break action. Its a Savage Model 40 chambered for the K-Hornet. It should be getting here this week.

[Con]

The Lee Collet die is critical for length. If the AI case and parent case are the same length ... it'll work really well. I've been using a 223 Collet die to neck size shorter 222Rimmed AI cases ... in this instance I can only size about 3mm of neck. A friend uses a 375H&H collet die to neck size his 375AI.
Cheers...
Con

[wapaloose]

+3 for Lil Gun

[bootsmcguire]

Well I got some H110/W296 and loaded it behind some 45gr Sierra Hornet bullets and was rather impressed. Shot a .75 group at about 110yds off the hood of my truck using a bipod (haven't had any time to get to the range with duck and bow seasons comming up). All you guys say Lil Gun is thgepowder of choice and I would like to try some. Lil gun along with the H110 has been scarce at the local shop, every time he gets either in it goes right back out the door. Anyway, once I use up the 45's I am gonna try some of the 35gr V-max and Lil gun, if I can wait that long ;D

[dperk]

Lil'Gun is an amazing powder in the k-hornet! It also can not overpressure a case by being too full.

I took my k-hornet to a dog town and couldn't miss. It's one of the most accurate rifles I own. I just recently bought a big jug of lil-gun because of the k-hornet (and .41mag). It was invented for .410 shotgun, but I bet the developer at Hodgdon really made it for the k-hornet :)

[bsekf]

The Lee collet die may bump the shoulder on an AI case. Check to see if the case contacts the die before the shell holder contacts the die. If it does, use a washer over the case. I use a 308 and a 7-08 Lee collet dies for several wildcats based on the 444 and the 307 cases. Regardless, I use a Hornady headspace gauge to make sure I haven't touched the shoulder. I use the washer trick with Forester Benchrest seater dies too.

[bootsmcguire]

Still haven't gotten around to getting a Collet Die to try yet. My 243AI has been my pet-project as of lately. Right now I am mostly wondering about neck sizing to eliminate brass stretch. When I bought the gun it came with a Redding 2 die set and 75pcs. of 3 times fired brass all from this gun. I went ahead and loaded some as I posted earlier, as I have fired them I have noticed that about 1/3 of them have cracked or even a couple seperated all in the same place, about 1/3 the way down from the neck. I am thinking that FL sizing and then firing is working the brass in that area, so I am thinking neck sizing will help eliminate that. I have purchased some new 22 Hornet brass to try and i am gonna set the old stuff away. And I am thinking I will only neck size the new stuff to test the thereoy. What do you guys think?

The load I used in the old brass was start charge (for the std. 22 Hornet) of H110 under a Seirra 45gr. .224 Hornet and a Rem 6 1/2 primer.

[bsekf]

Boots,

With a full length die, you can back it off a turn and just neck size. That leaves the shoulder alone. With a bolt gun and sensible loads you won't have to bump the shoulder for many reloads. However, you are still work hardening the brass by squeezing the neck and then expanding it and if you haven't lubed the neck you may pull the shoulder forward. You will need to anneal the necks to alleviate the splitting. The beauty of the collet die is that you only squeeze the neck around a mandrel and work harden the necks half as much.

"Improved" chamberings increase case capacity but also reduce case stretch and you don't need to trim as much. I trim after fireforming and then only to square up the case mouth.

I would think about a K-Hornet, the standard Hornet doesn't have much of a shoulder to head space on.

All this.....and a buck gets you a cup of coffee!

Bill

[bootsmcguire]

Bill, all of what you say is true and appreciated. That is why I have loved the collet dies in all my other rifle calibers. Hopefully the Hornet Collet die will work for the K-Hornet. I guess the only way to know for sure is to try. Until then I was planning to do like you said and back off the FL die. I just much prefer the Collet as it doesn't require the lube and like you said seems to work the brass alot less.

[bsekf]

Boots,

If the washer trick won't work, Lee will make you a custom die, not sure of the price but I'll bet it's cheaper than Redding.

Bill

[bootsmcguire]

Gonna bring this one back from the dead...........

Well I finally got around to ordering a 22 Hornet Collet Die to try with the 22 K-Hornet. There is good news and bad news.

The Bad News: The shoulder of the K-H is too close to the mouth to allow the use of the collet die. The shoulder hits the collet before the shellholder presses on the die to activate the collet.

The Good News: Using a CNC Plasma Cutter I cut out a "C" shaped washer (that matched the shape of my shellholder) out of 3/16 material and attached it to the shellholder via Locktite 380 (one he!! of an adhesive). That spaced the shellholder down enough to make up for the difference in neck length between the K-H and the standard Hornet. Works like a champ and it sizes about 3/4 of the neck on the K-H.

Lee will make a custom Collet die set (collet die and dead length seater) for $55 but with up to a 8-12 week wait. They will make a FL die and seater for $135 with the same wait time.

Even with my mod you would still need a FL Die set cuz the 22H Seating die that comes with the set doesn't work on the K-H.