Outside action diameter question

[Wildcat]

Does anyone know if the outside diameter of a 110/10 action threaded for a small shank barrel is the same as one threaded for a large shank barrel? None of the actions I own accept large shank barrels so I can't take measurements to compare and get the answer. I know all the target actions are threaded to accept large shank barrels but I don't own one of those to take measurements from. My thought process is that if they are both the same outside diameter, then the only difference would be the additional steel removed from one to allow for the acceptance of a large shank barrel.

I'm asking this question because I'm investigating the potential for having a 110 action presently threaded for a small shank barrel opened up to accept a large shank barrel. I've used the Search function and it appears that this is possible to do and has been done before. However, the consensus of most of the posters in that thread was that it shouldn't be done due to cost and possible safety issues regarding changing the heat treatment of the action, and it would be better in the end to buy a target action or one threaded for large shank barrels from the factory. My problem with that bit of wisdom is that I've yet to find a 110 action factory threaded to accept a large shank barrel, and I don't really want to build off a single shot target action as my goal is for this rifle to be a repeater for hunting and medium range paper punching.

As always, thank all of you in advance who respond to this thread. I'm very interested to hear what you all have to say.


Wildcat

[lavahunter]

Yes they are. I have a couple of small shank action rifles and 1 large shank action rifle. They all measure 1.355" OD.
I swap them all to different stocks depending on what I want to do that day.
These are all short action, and I would assume the long actions are the same.

If I needed to, I wouldn't hesitate to open up a small shank action to accept a large shank barrel. Savage does it.
A good machinist with a coolant system is not going to heat the action up to change anything, IN MY OPINION

[RC20]

Maybe the better question is, can you get a magnum in a small shank after market?

Are you planning on picking up a Savage take off barrel?

I would think even if its a special order small shank you could get one from Criterion, XC, Shilen etc

Or a used Savage magnum and sell the barrel if its not in the caliber you want.

[FW Conch]

Do You really need more than an Edge? Say, a 338? They are built on small shank.

[lavahunter]

There are quite a few magnums based on the small shank, I have one in 7mm and if needed it is a lot easier to turn a large shank barrel into a small shank then open up a receiver.

[Wildcat]

Lavahunter, RC20, and FW Conch thanks for your responses. Lavahunter, in particular, thank you for taking the time to measure your actions and share what you found. This is good news for me. I think, as you, that if the outside diameter for the short actions is the same, than it should be as well for the long actions. RC20 and FW Conch, as crazy as is may sound, I'm not actually interested in a build for any sort of magnum cartridge. A 338 Edge, if I wanted one, is plenty big enough for anything I might ever encounter in the woods on at the range. :smile-new: Rather, I'm interested in a build using a barrel contour larger than a Savage magnum or Criterion light varmint but smaller than the 1.00" bull contour. I know I could simply select a Savage varmint contour (approx. .800" at the muzzle) and be done with it, but I'm partial to contours similar to the Shilen #5 through #7 range, the Pac Nor #4 through #7 range, and some of the Palma contours for example. After talking with barrel manufacturers, these contours seem to be made primarily for large shank actions. I realize I could probably get one custom made for a small shank action, but I was told it would have a step up in diameter after the barrel nut and, honestly, I don't find the step-up aesthetically pleasing. If made on a on a large shank barrel the step up can be eliminated or kept to a minimum.

I realize that some (probably many) will think this isn't a very cost effective endeavor if I pursue it, and they are probably correct if you crunch the numbers. Sometimes though, you just have to listen and march to your own internal drum beat.... even if it's different from everyone else's. LOL. Following a different path particularly if it makes you happy, is the way to go IMO.

All that said, I'm interested in hearing the opinions and thoughts of others on this topic. I admit I don't know everything and there is more than one way to skin a cat. I'm confident there are guys here who know and have forgotten more about building Savage rifles than I'm likely to ever know. If I can learn anything from this discussion then its been worthwhile. If others can benefit as well, then its even better.

Wildcat

[Robinhood]

There are quite a few magnums based on the small shank, I have one in 7mm and if needed it is a lot easier to turn a large shank barrel into a small shank then open up a receiver.

I disagree.

1.055"x 20 TPI Small shank
1.120"X 20 TPI Large shank

Sharpshooter for one can cut Large shank threads in your action.

[Wildcat]

Robinhood,
Thanks for that bit of information. Now that it seems possible, finding a gunsmith I am comfortable with who can and is willing to do the work was my next step. Knowing that Sharpshooter can do this work is good news. He has timed/trued a couple of actions for me and I'm very happy with the results and comfortable with his work. If I could get the work done in conjunction with a time/trueing job, that makes it just that much easier IMO. I have heard of a couple of other smiths that may be able to do the work, I'm sure there are more, and I'm awaiting responses to my inquiries.

[Zero333]

I disagree.

1.055"x 20 TPI Small shank
1.120"X 20 TPI Large shank

Sharpshooter for one can cut Large shank threads in your action.

It's easier to turn down a large shank barrel to small shank threads than to open up the receiver... And 300winmag 338winmag 7remmag all come on small shanks from Savage.

[lavahunter]

I disagree.

1.055"x 20 TPI Small shank
1.120"X 20 TPI Large shank

Sharpshooter for one can cut Large shank threads in your action.

Im not sure what part you disagree with? I have not tried threading an action, but I have turned down a couple of large shank barrels into small shank by just engaging the lathe at the right time following the same threads with the barrel between centers. And you can do it so the end of the nut is right at the step up in the barrel so you don't notice it.
External threading is easier for me than internal. I'm sure that an experienced gunsmith would have no problems doing it either way.

[Robinhood]

It's easier to turn down a large shank barrel to small shank threads than to open up the receiver... And 300winmag 338winmag 7remmag all come on small shanks from Savage.

I guess that depends on your machining skills and equipment. I've done both.


And you can do it so the end of the nut is right at the step up in the barrel so you don't notice it.

The hardest part of turning the barrel down is not on the end where the threads are. Its not exciting the harmonics and getting chatter further away from the center. A follow rest helps if you are cutting straight. either way almost everything I see done is polished. Another time burglar.

Threading inside or outside is the same thing. DRO or indicators. At 20 threads per inch you don't even need to turn your compound to 29.5 degrees.


And 300winmag 338winmag 7remmag all come on small shanks from Savage.

I don't dispute that. I responded to the OP's question. As a machinist in a Repair Shop I have a different opinion on some things than the someone that does not cut metal for a living. I concede however, I am not a gunsmith.

[RC20]

I realize that some (probably many) will think this isn't a very cost effective endeavor if I pursue it, and they are probably correct if you crunch the numbers. Sometimes though, you just have to listen and march to your own internal drum beat.... even if it's different from everyone else's. LOL. Following a different path particularly if it makes you happy, is the way to go IMO.

Frankly that is what it is about. You get the best information you can to get what you would like.

Sometimes its a non starter, but if you can do it and it tickles your fancy, its your fancy and your tickle and you go for it.

I know some think I am a bit off to want a 7.5 Swiss on a Savage action. Nothing more to do with it than it appeals to me.

[Robinhood]

I agree.