First test loads, now what?

[Robinhood]

If you are going down as the load is getting hotter you may want to back off.

[m12lrs]

I believe the scope is good. The last time out with the same ammo the elevation stayed constant.

The max load in my manual with Varget is 24.9, being new Im not sure about exceeding max loads.


Try this

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

[71velle]

Try this

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Ok they show 24 to 26 grains with a 69 grain bullet. The hornady book with the 68 grain bullet they say 22.7 to 24.9 grains of powder. I am using the 68 grain bullet, not sure how much of a difference that makes.

Being new I want to stay on the safe side, are the load books a little conservative?

Also, thanks to all you guys for helping me out.
Not getting much help form the local shops, and have yet to meet anyone at the range the is real knowledgeable.

[chetc]

i can say almost all summer we were playing the the 223 heavy bullets, 26grs is hot it will pop primers be careful and hard bolt opening will happen,, with the 75 amax i load 25gr for hunting this a hot load, i keep these loads in my cooler when hunting groundhogs in the summer. most of the time we run 24.5 max Varget with the 69gr you will find somewhere in the 24.something you like with the 69gr

Chet

[71velle]

Its an odd day here in up state NY, over 50 degrees!!! I am loading up the rifle bag now. I made 3 different loads to test, I want to shoot at both 100 and 200 yards. Will post results.

[RC20]

I think this ramps up over complicated. Your loads are in a good safe zone and look accurate. Stick with it for now.

2 and 3 looks very good. The others not bad.

You are doing quite good. Better than I do on many days. Well done.

Repeat 2 and 3 loads. Shoot 3 or 4 more groups of each. Are they consistently that good?

Don; worry about flyers out of the 5 shot group, if you get 4 really that good then its got a lot of potential and its probably the shooter or even an odd off reload.

If they are consistently that good then start adjusting searing depth.

I take a press to the range with me (my old RCBS junior, C camp it to the bench, and adjust COAL (I have my Hornady comparator and micrometer setup with me as well). You can use bullet tip COAL but it has more variable to it than using the Hornady setup and using the ogive adaptor for your caliber off the shoulder (ogive) of the bullet.

Real example, I would duplicate your two loads exactly and seat 3 sets of each one at that COAL ( get your COAL, then measure ogive on the shoulder of the bullet with the comparator and then just use that as a relative adjustment )

The ladder thing is advanced work, needs to be done at 200 or 300 yards, you are doing fine at 100 with what you are doing.

Keep it simple as possible and then start getting into advanced stuff if you want from there

[71velle]

It was a great day at the range!!!! I dont feel that I shot the greatest but it was great to be able to shoot out side this time of year. I loaded three different power weights starting with my best group from last time and up and down 0.2 grains. I shot 10 rounds of each at 100 yards and 5 rounds each at 200. At 100 I shot 5 and went to the next load which I think was a big mistake. I "think" the second 5 had a different impact point maybe due to barrel temp, but not sure I wish the second 5 were on another target. When moving out to 200 yards I used 5 rounds to get the elevation close and then shot 5 rounds each. I dont know what to think yet about the loads except I think I am by far the weak link.

I am shooting from a bench with bipod and rear bag.
68 grain Hornady HPBT
Varget powder charge weights on picture
The green sticker is 2 inches

Any and all thoughts are welcome, I am new and trying to learn

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/artmalibu/Mobile%20Uploads/51FB5E2F-A147-4864-A272-E18694478D95_zps4j8fqnhm.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/artmalibu/media/Mobile%20Uploads/51FB5E2F-A147-4864-A272-E18694478D95_zps4j8fqnhm.jpg.html)

[SageRat Shooter]

23.5 - 23.6 looks like a good load to start sorting your seating depth. I'd go with .02 increments both up and down from whatever you had those loads set at. Looks good!! Get yourself a rear bag if you want to improve the groups also.

[foxx]

Be sure to let your barrel cool a few minutes between shots with an empty chamber so your loads don't heat up and the barrel is at consistent temp.

I'd still recommend trying 23.9 with different seating depths. (In your first test, it showed the least vertical stringing.)

[Slowpoke Slim]

I would load up 25 of each of your original test run loads #3 and #4 and shoot those. Really focus on your shooting bench work. It takes a lot of mental focus and care to shoot precision groups like you're chasing. My initial thought is you're either rushing your shots, or you have something really unsteady in your rifle rest/bag set up. Are you shooting off of a front rest/rear bag, mid bag, or bipod? You have to use the same "hold" each time. Each time the gun recoils at the shot, it should move the same way as the previous shot. You can gauge this somewhat by watching the target through the scope and seeing how the reticle moves in each shot. Also, some rifles will want to be held very lightly, some with moderate downward pressure, and some like to be held firmly. Same goes for the amount of pressure you hold it against your shoulder with. Depends on the gun, weight, balance, stock profile, and type of rest being used.

My first thought when comparing groups in your first batch, to the same groups in your second batch (the 23.5), is that your benchrest technique has changed.

[foxx]

My first thought when comparing groups in your first batch, to the same groups in your second batch (the 23.5), is that your benchrest technique has changed.

Exactly. If those were truly the same loads, and your shooting/hold technique is the same, it's definately not the load you are looking for.

Lay the two groups over each other, placing the aim point of one over the aim point of the other. and judge for yourself the overall "group."

That's not to say you aren't shooting well, 'cuz you are. It's just not what i think you are striving for.

Also, you might be "pissin' in the wind" right now. If it is a factory barrel, they generally take about 100+ rounds before the barrel itself settles down. Keep at it, but know there is a lot to learn and account for as you go. It's like learning to drive. Can learna lot from books and classroom, but not enough to be where YOU want to be. So don't get discouraged. Your questions are good, but the answers just aren't there, exactly. Can't be.

[Slowpoke Slim]

Yes, I agree with foxx, you are shooting really well, and I'm not trying to be critical. But I've seen shooters rush right past a "great" load by not having patience and finely honed bench shooting techniques when they're testing loads. You really have to remove the "human" element (shooter) as much as possible when testing loads. We're trying to evaluate loads, not shooters here. 100% mental focus, concentrating on every detail of the hold, the rest, position of rifle, position of shooter, fixed-stationary bench, rock solid rest, trigger control, sight picture, everything.

Shoot only 1 5 shot group per target dot (for now), shoot the entire 5 shots without moving/shifting/getting up off the gun. Have only those 5 shots sitting on the bench, where you can reach them without looking for them (takes your eye off the reticle and your face off the gun). Really focus on putting that reticle on the EXACT same spot on the target (harder than it sounds), and suffer no distractions (at first-new shooters are easily distracted). And take your time with each shot, focus, sight picture, hold, straight back on the trigger with the pad of the finger, not the knuckle joint, clean smooth easy break of the trigger.

Reason I'm harping on all of this is the difference in group sizes between your 100 yard group and your 200 yard group on that 23.5 gr load. The difference in group size doesn't compute (to me at least), so I'm thinking shooting bench work needs some tuning.

I still say groups #3 and #4 on your first test run could either one be "The One" you're after. Shoot a 5 shot group of each of those again, carefully, and if you get the same groups as your first try, THEN load and shoot 25 of each load again. If that gives you same results, try them both (both #3 and #4) again at 200 yards. One or the other of those may "stand out" better at 200 yards. And that's your load.

[Slowpoke Slim]

Oh, almost forgot, do not make ANY scope adjustments during this phase of testing. We really don't care where the group lands on the paper, as long as it's "close enough" to point of aim to tell which order the groups where fired, that's all that's required. I think in your second batch, you made scope corrections? I may have read that incorrectly in how you described it.

[71velle]

Thanks for the input guys!! And please dont hold back. I want to hear all opinions and ideas. I am happy at the results I am getting at this point, but I would like to get better. I do feel I am the weak link, as I caught myself doing some bad stuff. Unfortunately, I dont know any accomplished shooters to help me at the range yet. It is cool to see how you guys can look at the pics and know whats going on.

Due to weather I likely will not be able to back to the range anytime soon. But I would like to make the next set of rounds for the next good day. I feel that I cant get much closer with the powder charge weight with my current skills and lack of practice for now. My next question is how should I make the next rounds? Just make some up to practice shooting or try testing with seating depth. The loads I have been shooting are setup the same as the Hornady factory rounds. I did some quick measurements (ruff) and it seems as if I am a long way from the lands. I know I would need to do some more accurate measuring but would it be worth playing with at this time?

[foxx]

I would go with the first set that had the least vertical spread and try seating the bullet just off the lands. Load up a bunch and shoot as best you can. there's nothing wrong with trying to find a good load while you learn to improve your shooting techniques, just anticipate having to go back and re-do your load development after you "learn to shoot". :)

Have confidence that you are a good shooter learning to shoot better... will be a "great shooter" some day... don't get frustrated with your shooting or hand loading results between now and then... you will figure it out as you go, as long as you keep at it. Eventually you may find someone at the range who is better/more knowledgeable and they will also help you.

Remember this: you ARE good. And BELIEVE it. You just have to get more CONSISTENT in your own skill development before over thinking load development.

[71velle]

Is there any good resources anyone can recommend on shooting technique?

Thanks for the advice and encouragement everyone! It great to have a place to share our hobby!!!

[71velle]

Another unseasonal warm day so I made up some rounds and went to the range. All loads were the same just tried to focus on the shooting. I did make one scope adjustment after the first group(upper left). During the 5 group I felt that I was loosing concentration so I stopped. Soon I hope to measure the chamber and play with the seating depth. I was super happy to get a range day in February.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/artmalibu/Mobile%20Uploads/A019B1D2-F694-4C4F-971E-1D2563664455_zpsfpiitwum.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/artmalibu/media/Mobile%20Uploads/A019B1D2-F694-4C4F-971E-1D2563664455_zpsfpiitwum.jpg.html)