Inconsistent accuracy with 12fv in 308

[alltherage]

I have been handloading for this for a while. Every time i strike on something good, it seems like its not so good at the next range session. It could be mebut i havent had this issue w my other savages. Is it possible to shoot the same liad sub half moa one day multiple times and then have it be just sub moa multiple times the next assuming the rounds are identical? Or does it mean i just havent found a consistent load and should keep digging

[Jezzro2004]

Having everything uniform as possible is critical, are you sure each charge of powder is exactly the same to 1/10th of a grain?
Are you shooting the same brand brass as well?
Flash holes and primer pockets uniformed?
Make sure case length is within .001
One thing is measuring and making sure each bullet is seated within .001 on the ogive.
Sorry to ask so many questions, don't know your hand-loading experience so throwing some small key things out there. I'm a big savage fan I understand where your coming from, not knocking on the brand. Since I re barreled one with a different brand barrel I have seen way more consistency in groups vs the factory barrels. All factory barrels do shoot well and sounds as if yours is too but I never could narrow down the same thing you are describing on the one I had. Also what distance are you shooting your groups at? Faster twist barrels with heavier grain boat tails haven't started to stabilize their flight as well at shorter distances as a slower twist barrel with say flat base bullets. One thing I have noticed too which is a huge factor in my experience is neck tension. If you got one bullet or more that you feel seating harder separate and the ones that feel consistent in seating pressure shoot those next time and see if it does better. I know inconsistency in neck tension causes nice bug holes to go south.
I have found too in my experience I cannot shoot from a bag as well as an bipod, I am not consistent at all with a bag I got to work on that but I can shoot one hole groups with my newly built savage 6br on a bipod, turn around and shoot from a bag put 2 in the same hole and throw the 3rd one an inch off, technique is everything
Sounds like your load is good, could be like me with the bag, something you might not be doing consistent each time. Hope this helps ya out friend and don't stress enjoy the trigger time.

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[Wide Glide]

Could be on the very edge of an accuracy node.
Could be resting inconsistently with the Tupperware stock.
Could just be being more careful with the wind some days not others. Some say wind doesn't matter at 100yds but that depends what your shooting. When shooting cans or critters it won't seem to matter but shooting groups it definitely does. A full value 5mph gust will throw me off almost a half inch at 100.

My money would be on the stock. The non accustock stocks from Savage seem really unforgiving when it comes to form with rests.

[alltherage]

Thanks. Im shooting 100-150yd. Trying to get consistent so i can shoot 600. Norma brass with 178 amac. I found they shoot betterthan 168 in mine. 42 grains imr 4895. Tupperware stock in a lead sled. Tried bags too. I have struggled getting consistent neck tensions w my lee collet die.admittedly although they feel similar.

[alltherage]

Starting to wonder if its worth chasing this much more. Have a new xcaliber 6.5x55 i want to try out

[LongRange]

my first question is how long have you been shooting and reloading? next would be what are the weather conditions when you shoot the tight groups and whats the conditions when things open up?

[bsekf]

Till I got a 36x BR scope, I had no idea how bad my bench technique was. After setting your rifle up on the bags, dry fire and see if the crosshairs move. If they do, you got it set up wrong. If you can see your heartbeat in the scope, you are holding it wrong. There is a reason the BR guys only touch the rifle with their trigger finger. Can you read the wind? Where are your wind flags set? The first 25 yards are more important than the last 50. You got to be consistent and have lots of trigger time.

Bill

[flangster]

I had a problem similar to yours and in my case inattention to neck tension was the culprit. Are you keeping good notes of your process?

[RC20]

I have had similar problems. I think its me and the lack of consistency.

My personal take is once you get sub 3/4 and for sure sub 5/8 MOA, then the least little bit of variation by the shooter changes things and sometimes dramatically.

While it ebbs back and forth, I am finding I am shooting more and more sub 3/4 and working into sub 5/8 MOA.

Rarely now do I get more than 1 inch.

It may be the setup for the 12FV that is harder to get consistent.

Agreed on the edge of a node, I have had some good shooting in winter and then off when spring comes

But also in winter heavier clothing and I am more buffered from he gun!

A help for me is putting all of them in on type of good stock.

[Wide Glide]

. I have struggled getting consistent neck tensions w my lee collet die.admittedly although they feel similar.

I would try reinstalling it again from scratch using the directions like you just opened it for the first time. Maybe try a few times if needed if that doesn't work contact lee for an exchange. My consistency improved greatly with the collet neck dies. They were a game changer for me. All my sizing is done with the lee CNSD and when needed redding body sizing die

[alltherage]

Thanks. Been reloading for a year and shooting this 308 during that same time. Frustrating because my axis hb 243 shoots insanely consistent using same methods

[jpx2rk]

Got good brass??

[ninner]

Have you tried any quality factory ammo?

[alltherage]

I get 1/4" 3 shot groups at 100 one day and 6/8" the next. Not worth shooting 600 with 6/8 but it is with 1/4". Thats the dilemma for me

[ninner]

I have a sighting sled I bought at Cabelas that allows me to strap in the rifle and dial it on target with different adjustments. That's the only way I can test the potential of my rifles, I'm just not that good, I haven't used the remote trigger puller though, it just seems wrong.

[LongRange]

Why would it not be worth shooting at 600?

And I bet is more you than your loads...I'd suggest you take your 243 and 308 out and film yourself shooting both with a video camera....I'll guarantee you'll find the problem if you know what to look for.


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[RC20]

First thing is to make sure the base screws are tight as well as the scope rings and mount screws.

Ditto with action screws, consistent tension rather than the super fine tuning.

I think I begin to see part of the problem. And I hope I am not raining on a parade.

5 shots is the minimum for assessing a group. Be that from a shooter or the hardware perspective (gun, scope, ammo)

I am not big into that kind of math but its a statistical thing. Actually the real iron test is 10 shots (for the hardware). I don't think that is worth it unless or until the consistent is there to wring out the hardware end. I shoot those from time to time. I am not consistent enough to hold it normally.

I also find I do well with a new barrel or rifle then go off sideways for a while. No idea yet what that is about.

It still sounds like a body mechanics factor (and that includes how the stock suits you) .

Also, the best initial way to test a rifle load is to pick a load near the bottom of the range of loads (I use at least two books) go 3/10 above that and then load groups of 15 on up to near maximum.

There should be an accurate node down in the lower end, another one in the upper end, usually neither one is minimum or maximum.

Said accurate is not 1/2 inch group, its one that is consistent (3/4, 1 inch). Then you start adjusting COAL.

I take a press to the range with me (I have an old RCBS Junior that works well for that but there are hand presses out for that now as well)

My take is something about .010 off the lands, and by that I mean testing a bullet that is too long, feel it stick where you have to tap the bolt handle to get it unstuck (putting it in carefully, don't slam the bolt, just move it forward gently and try to close it). When it stick you will see mars on the bullet.

Drop it back about .010 from that. See what it does. Move it up .005. I don't like bullets jammed but the experts say that is usually the most accurate.

As I am not going to be shooting 1s and 2s I don't worry about that part.

It may be that its happier with .015 on up to .060.

Some bullets like a long jump, there is a method to find that, have to look it up.

Stringing either way can be a factor of searing depth and you can tune that out from a string to a group (as long as its not a gun issue)

[alltherage]

Thanks for all the help. I have shot a couple hundred rounds down it during load development. I got to where i thought i needed to be but its not consistent all the time. I think i will focus on mechanics. The stock. Neck tension. Anywhere variation could come into play

[chetc]

just to add to this topic, we have 4 12 fv's in the group, of the 4, 3 of us went with aftermarket stocks and improvements were made.

Chet

[Swift4Yotes]

I have had experience with two 308 12fvs and a 22 250 and a 204 as well. One 308 liked 168s and the other 165 Sierras. All 4 rifles will shoot half most but we haven't shot the enough to really test day to day consistency. I have the most experience with my 22 250 and I have noticed it does not shoot consistent until several fouling shots after cleaning. The 22 250 and the 308's seems to really like varget.