Building a hunting rifle with a 16 to 18 inch barrel

[ninner]

I've built plenty of heavy barreled rifles on axis and 111 actions. Now I'm thinking of switching gears and building a light rifle with a short sporster contour barrel for stalking vs sitting in the deer stand drinking coffee. I've got several barrels to choose from and have narrowed it down to 270 or 243. I'm building on a 111 or axis receiver so length isn't an issue.

My main questions are
Has anyone ever fired a 270 or 243 out of a 16" barrel?
How much velocity will I loose.
I expect accuracy to improve with the more rigid shorter barrel and 11 deg target crown "this has happened every time I cut down a lightweight barrel".

[bowfishn]

Hodgdon lists Pistol data for 15" barrels for both that should give you an idea.

[Zero333]

Going from a 22" down to a 16" with the 243win you will loose almost 300 fps with 100 grainers, according to Quickload. Same deal with the 270win.

243win shooting a 100 gr bullet at 2,700 fps will harvest a deer humanely up to 300 yards. And the 270win with 130gr at 2,800 fps will harvest a deer out to 500 yards. Just ran the #'s in a ballistic calc and looked at where the bullet's energy drops down to 1,000 ft-lbs, that's where I got the 300 and 500 yards.

Factory ammo will be very disappointing regarding velocity in a 16" bbl.
I chronoed some Factory 243win loads in a 22" bbl and the velocity was 150 to 200 fps less than what the box claimed.

[ninner]

I never would have thought to look at pistol data my go-to Hornady Manual only lists rifle data for those calibers. 270 looks promising, about 400 fps faster than 243 with pistol load. Hopefully the pistol load data will keep down the muzzle flash.
2415

[bsekf]

I have several short barrelled rifles. I use a faster powder but am not sure it is necessary. Powder is usually burnt in the first 12-15 inches. I use RL19 in a 15 inch Encore 7x444, just to fill the case up and have taken whitetails at 400 yards with it. Short, fat barrells have less harmonic distortion, that's why the BR guys use them. Shortened sporter weight, not so much and you still have the heat.

Be sure to keep it over 16 inches and there is an legal overall length too(maybe 26 inches???), for the Feds. Individual States often have some screwy hunting laws too.

Bill

[ninner]

I reload so I'm going with the 270. can't wait to see how it shoots. Just need another donor action at this point.


Going from a 22" down to a 16" with the 243win you will loose almost 300 fps with 100 grainers, according to Quickload. Same deal with the 270win.

243win shooting a 100 gr bullet at 2,700 fps will harvest a deer humanely up to 300 yards. And the 270win with 130gr at 2,800 fps will harvest a deer out to 500 yards. Just ran the #'s in a ballistic calc and looked at where the bullet's energy drops down to 1,000 ft-lbs, that's where I got the 300 and 500 yards.

Factory ammo will be very disappointing regarding velocity in a 16" bbl.
I chronoed some Factory 243win loads in a 22" bbl and the velocity was 150 to 200 fps less than what the box claimed.

[rosewood]

...there is an legal overall length too(maybe 26 inches???), for the Feds. Individual States often have some screwy hunting laws too.

Bill

OAL only applies to shotguns, not rifles.

Rosewood

[rosewood]

Encore pistol load data is a good place to start. I do recommend going with the fastest burning powder listed. This will reduce muzzle blast and flash over a slower powder that burns outside the barrel. H380 powder in a 15" .270 sounds like a cannon going off. It will ring your ears without protection for sure, even in the woods. I switched to H335 and it is much more pleasant.

I would shy away from a .270 or long action cartridge if you can. They need more powder which needs more barrel to burn up completely. A .243 may be fine, but it tends to like slow powders and you may be giving up a lot of energy with a short barrel. A short barrel may do better with something like a .308 or 7mm-08 over a .270.

Rosewood

[rosewood]

I don't have the exact data available, but do remember the 150gr factory .270 rounds lost less velocity going from a 22" barrel to the 15" barrel than 130gr did. I ended up going with a 110 grain sierra pro hunter for the 15" contender and was getting about 2750 out of that barrel. The heavier bullets had a lot of recoil is the reason I went with the 110. If I was building a short rifle, I would probably go with a 150 grain bullet and use a medium powder like H335 or RL15 or the like.

Rosewood

[ninner]

I just cut it down and found out I cant do a target crown on a 270 instead I used a wheeler crown lapping tool we shall see how it works. I'm going to hit the local pawn shops for 111 or axis with the right bolt head. Everything else is sighted in and shoot great so I dont want to tear one down unless I cant find what I'm looking for at the right price.

[bsekf]

Don't want to see anybody get in trouble. After Rosewood's post I thought maybe the law had changed.... it hasn't. 26 inch OAL refers to rifles too. Quick google turned this up.

Rifle: A shoulder fired, rifled barrel firearm with an overall length of 26” or greater, even when a folding or collapsible stock is retracted. Minimum barrel length is 16” from breech face to crown.

Simply put, on the whole, a rifle barrel should be no less than 16" and a shotgun barrel should be no less than 18". While the overall gun length for either a rifle or a shotgun has to be 26" according to the ATF.

[ninner]

You would have to severely have to cut down the stock to get that short. For instance an Axis with a 16" barrel is 36.5"


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[rosewood]

Don't want to see anybody get in trouble. After Rosewood's post I thought maybe the law had changed.... it hasn't. 26 inch OAL refers to rifles too. Quick google turned this up.

Rifle: A shoulder fired, rifled barrel firearm with an overall length of 26” or greater, even when a folding or collapsible stock is retracted. Minimum barrel length is 16” from breech face to crown.

Simply put, on the whole, a rifle barrel should be no less than 16" and a shotgun barrel should be no less than 18". While the overall gun length for either a rifle or a shotgun has to be 26" according to the ATF.

Show me the code that states that. I could never find it. Google search doesn't count.

[big honkin jeep]

The overall length issue unless you're going with some kind of funky "bull pup" stock is going to be a mute point, I cut a .308 way down on both ends and am still at 36". I love the resulting 16" barreled carbine. Went with .308 on mine and velocity loss was quite acceptable at roughly 20FPS per inch. It seems the powder that gives best velocity at full length also gives best velocity from a shorter barrel from everything I've found.
Enjoy your project, I'm sure you'll love the handling characteristics.

[rosewood]

Well open mouth insert foot. I finally found the ATF ruling stating a rifle has to be 26" overall. However, I have been unable to determine for sure if that is with a folded stock or extended. The post on the internet seem to imply that it only has to be 26" extended, but I can't find that in the ATF document. It does specifically state that a shotgun has to be 26" OAL folded.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi2m7XT3IfRAhWBQSYKHUqRA7QQFggcMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.atf.gov%2Ffile%2F11241%2Fdow nload&usg=AFQjCNEW6hBVINii5cI5-x6iU1c_1SPWZA&bvm=bv.142059868,d.eWE


Rosewood

[thatguyshm]

I've been toying with doing this with the 450 Bushmaster for a truck and stalking gun, quick to swing around and get out in a hurry. Just haven't made the plunge yet. Most woods shots in the NE are quick shots and sometimes plowing though thick bush.

I like the 450 BM because you can use all the 45 cal black powder bullets that go on sale in the winter for cheaper reloads and not be undersized like you would be in a socom.



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[bsekf]

Just trying to point out BATF laws. BATF says you can put a +16 inch barrel on your pistol frame and NYS says you can't HUNT with a pistol with a barrel over 16 inches. Stupid, yes! But get caught with a illegal handgun and you have some real problems, usually the first thing is to confiscate ALL your guns.

My favorite truck gun is a 444 Marlin, 17 inch barrel on an Encore frame with composite furnishings. 225 FlexTip's are deadly out to 200 yards. Also have a 18 inch McGowan in 6x47L Savage that shoots 4's and 5's, a 223 Hart 17 inch for an Contender, and a 308 20 inch Savage HogHunter, all rifles. The 308 has a Harrell's brake, they work great.

Bill