newbie with 12FV, so many questions...

[upinthehills]

I ordered another set of screws from EGW. Tomorrow I will go to the local Graingers and see if they have a tap in stock. Their web page lists 175 taps in #6-40 this will take awhile to digest, LOL... I don't want to take the barrel out so for the front hole a bottoming tap or blind hole type would work best, but I worry a bit about getting it started.

Maybe some of the barrel finish material on the action/barrel made it into the holes? I finally found my little pocket x10 magnifier so I'll put on my strong reading glasses and go take another look.

[upinthehills]

RC20, you're right. I don't know how I got that wrong, but we need #6-48, not 40 TPI. So Graingers lists 175 for the 40 TPI but only 2 for 48 TPI and they cost about $100 instead of starting at $10.

The #8-40 is also a special tap and they only sell 1. It's only $60 though.

Since this is something that doesn't get used much after it's installed, I think the new screws will do OK. Just have to careful putting them in.

[upinthehills]

Found the 6-48 tap at Brownells/Sinclair for $18. I bought the 2 flute bottoming version of the tap. There was a 3 flute version which would probably be easier to use, it would be more likely to go in straight, but it was back ordered...

[holescreek]

$3.09 for 6-48 tap. Same one brownells sells. http://m.advanceautoparts.com/p/hanson-high-carbon-steel-machine-screw-plug-tap-6-48-ns-han1121/22987784-P?searchTerm=6-48+tap&zoneAssigned=1&prefStoredSet=1&prefZC=45459

[RC20]

Maybe some of the barrel finish material on the action/barrel made it into the holes? I finally found my little pocket x10 magnifier so I'll put on my strong reading glasses and go take another look.

Yes that's what the problem is. I not run the tap down the front screw hole which is where its worst, and the least resistance to any screw do the same.

Most of the time they are fine, once in about 4 or 6 times something gets in there. Just have to be careful and if it does stop and correct even if it means taking the barrel off if you don't have the bottom tap.

[upinthehills]

I did get a look with a x10 magnifier and it seemed like it might be some finish material, it makes sense. It was a couple threads down though. I did get the bottoming tap and was worried about getting it started but that went fine. It started OK in all the holes but had trouble about 2-3 turns down. One hole, second from back, has a flaw now and the screw wants to get crooked after a couple of turns but if you hold it straight it lines up and goes down fine. I was very glad I bought the bottoming tap when it came time to do the front hole.

I found some old Savage catalogs here and see the listed the 12FV as a standard model several years ago. So far I am happy with it. People who have handled it say they are impressed with how smooth the action is. The stock is plastic but seems stiffer and stronger than one I saw being used as an example in how to bed an action on some other thread here. It need to upgrade to wood, but will do fine for now until I decide what to get.

It took most of a box of 20 cartridges to get the scope zeroed. It's the first time I've shot a centerfire rifle and there was some practice involved. I shot 2 or 3 rounds at 30 ft. and then moved to 100 yds. but couldn't find the first shot or two. The last 2 rounds where under an inch on the center of the target. I have the trigger set light and a couple rounds went down range a little before I intended, it's just a much lighter trigger now than my Model 19.

When I got home the scope looked like it was backed up to the rear of the rail, so I think it moved a bit. So I'll check it's vertical and rethink if I like where it is and then torque it down a little harder. I don't have a torque wrench for something this little.

[RC20]

Wheeler makes one, $45 or so as I recall.

I don't use one but a lot of experience with screws and what tight is and over doing it.

I just got the 12FV barrel back into an action (I call it my play setup, long actions I can put short or long cartridge in, single load setup)

Range temp was 10 (we do have overhead heaters) I was pretty Michelin man like (bit of breeze so down range it was crisp). I got one 3/8 inch group out of it. Another 5/8 and one 7/8. That can be a good barrel indicators were it was 1/2 MOA when I was shooing it at 75 yds (scope limitation)

First rounds in a long time and generic good shooter in another gun.

I replaced my stock with a Laminate but I did shoot it in the plastic before I did. (Boyd's Thumbhole)

[upinthehills]

Is your stock the "featherweight thumbhole"? I am unsure of the need for using laminate. My Savage Model 19 is 75 years old and doesn't seem to have a problem with warpage on it's stock. The laminate nutmeg stocks seem sort of wood-like from the pictures as opposed to something made from Neon. So maybe that would do for me. I'm trying to decide between the shapes in the Classic, Prarie Hunter and Pro Varmint stocks. I need to measure my barrel and compare to their specs.

My 12FV holds different than my Model 19 and I need to spend some time practicing this and figuring what is comfortable. I saw advice the other day to pick up the rifle with your eyes closed, bring it to your shoulder and then open your eyes and see how it fits. You should be lined up properly with the scope when you get it right. I'm not sure if I've learned a funny habit for holding it because my Model 19 has peep sights, so you sort of lower your head to use it.

While trying this last night I noticed the scope had a good divot in the focus ring where it started hitting the scope mount rail. I am glad I chose a scope known to be rugged, it seems fine. I'm wondering if the EGW scope rail mounts the scope higher than some others. Earlier in the thread someone with the same scope said they got a very tight clearance, but mine seems to have nearly 3/8" of an inch. I need to practice some more but it seems a little high for me with the stock stock.

I measured my fired brass out of curiosity and it seems like it grew about 0.004" in width and about 0.002" in length. Does that sound like I have a loose or tight chamber for a production unit?

[RC20]

I actually have both the featherweight Thumb Hole and a Varmint Thumbhole.

I wanted to put together both a good looking (in my opinion that leaves plastic and composites out) and one I was sure was not a factor in shooting.
The Laminate in Nutmeg does that by default. I like it. I have other colors now just to differential but the Nutmeg is my favorite as it looks like nice wood.

The Nutmeg stock, blue receiver and stainless barrel get a lot of looks and compliments (I was out to please myself but interesting its pretty wide spread)

So Laminate not a have to, but it does eliminate a variable for me, Boyds can cut it spot on and I don't have to get my brother to bed it for me! (he did the EABS)

I bench rest shoot only so any of the walking hunting end is not a factor for me.

.002 is well with any normal for OAL. Varies a lot with loads and mfg of brass.

Diameter. .004 if measure at the base is a severe problem, I think (caveat, warning, alert) that .004 at the neck is normal.

[upinthehills]

OK, so I'm looking at the cases and measuring more carefully. I took 5 cartridges out of the next box of 168 Federal Gold Match and I pulled out 5 of my fired cases. I guess it would be better to measure the same cases before and after, but this is where I a at the moment. The unfired cases seem very consistent, my dial caliper finds the same numbers on all of them. The fired cases are consistent too, they are just a different shape. I think the change in shape is what made trouble. They are very slightly bulged, I can see this with a straight edge but it's not easy.

This time measured carefully, I don't know all the terminology but will try to describe. At the head of the cartridge ( primer end ), there is an indent for the extractor to grab the shell. I measured right at the beginning of the powder section of the case which should be the widest part considering the taper. At this point they all measured between 0.001" and <0.0015" of stretch. Before I was measuring about an 1/8" further down the taper. THe fired brass does not really taper for about the first 0.3"-0.4".

The top of the neck and also the wide part of the shoulder both show about 0.004" of stretch.

RC, thanks for taking the time to respond. I don't reload now, but I'm saving my brass and expect to spend some time learning about it before I invest in the equipment etc.

[upinthehills]

I've been going thru the Boyd's web site carefully trying to find a stock that seems attractive and appropriate for me. I'm just a beginner so not looking for something that's all "Tacticool" that I need to wear sunglasses and camo with and constantly use the word "dude". I'd rather just show up and try to shoot well. At my last match I was one of only a couple of people that had iron sights, it was a rimfire silhouette match and I was using my antique Model 19 with peep sights. I did OK though and wasn't eliminated until the last round. So on the way out though people where all looking at my rifle and saying "nice rifle". It definitely looks 75 years old.

After going thru their website it appears the only "normal" stock that would fit my varmint barrel is the "Rimfire Hunter", the description says it will take up to a 1" barrel. The quote below indicates the centerfire stocks will not have enough wood in them to do that though. You could do it, but it would be goofy looking without any rail left on the sides of the stock.


You cannot fit a varmint barrel into our Classic, FT or Prairie Hunter design stocks unless you are willing to give up the 'flats' or rails on the top and sides of the forend.

After talking to them on the phone they said they can't make the Rimfire Hunter for my Model 12, you can only get stocks their selector tool will allow. :-( The Pro Varmint will work, but it just seems a little "chunky" for what I want and the the tacticool appearance isn't really attractive to me. Plus you have to pay extra to not get it painted black. Possibly attacking it with a belt sander would help but that really ups the size of this part of the project.

Is the Pro Varmint style stock a big help in shooting prone or targets in general or something? Trying to understand the issues here.

This is the Rimfire Hunter stock:
https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/design-gallery/rimfire-hunter-(rh)-replacement-gunstocks

[WV1951]

I had the same issue when I was looking for more of a "traditional" wood stock for my 12FV. Fortunately, a member here had some for sale in a laminate that was nearly a perfect fit. Boyds didn't offer this style in a varmint contour. Seems the thumb hole is the popular style and this one would fill that slot.

http://www.eabco.net/Savage-Thumbhole-Varmint-Stock_p_14233.html

[RC20]

It will and I have one, I don't plan on getting antoher one.

Its to the pillars and that means you need to bed it.

For some not a big deal but I am a klutz when it comes to glues and that stuff.

I wound up removing a lot of material so I could do a poor mans bedding and it was ok (strips under the front receiver.

My brother bedded it for me and its good now.

There was a lot of inconstant interference inside the receiver area that had to be cleaned out, rear tang as well. Some around the trigger.

Nice thing about Boyds is its carved perfectly and a nice tight fit out of the box.

[indianasavage]

I put my 12FV in a Bell and Carlson A2 pictured here. I had it inlet by CDI.
http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r641/haganengr/Savage%2012FV%20Build-2_zpsq21nszyh.jpg (http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/haganengr/media/Savage%2012FV%20Build-2_zpsq21nszyh.jpg.html)

[upinthehills]

Groan... I found this link on a thread about stocks for a 12VT, I never considered specifying my rifle this way:
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/FindAStock?Make=43&Model=008&Action=1U

If you specify you have a Model 11 with a bull barrel but don't specify top or bottom bolt release, they will offer you lots of stocks. Looking at the version of the classic style stocks with this setting gives a barrel measurement of 0.930" for point "B" ( 9 inches in front of the recoil lug ). My rifle has a measurement of 0.965", so about 1/32" larger...

Tomorrow I'll take off my plastic stock and try to see if the top bolt release is some kind of deal breaker on this. If it's just some custom fitting that doesn't bother me too much. Are there versions of these rifles that don't have a bolt release? My Savage Model 19 only requires you hold the trigger down to release the bolt...

I've looked at some other sites for stocks too like Richard's Microfit Stocks. It's similarly complicated to figure out. One thing they do though is describe the differences between the stocks pretty well. It still takes a lot of work but eventually they describe how each of the stocks in a category can be made by modifying a basic stock in that catagory. That's helpful if you're willing to get a rasp out and go at the shape.

[SageRat Shooter]

I've been going thru the Boyd's web site carefully trying to find a stock that seems attractive and appropriate for me. I'm just a beginner so not looking for something that's all "Tacticool" that I need to wear sunglasses and camo with and constantly use the word "dude". I'd rather just show up and try to shoot well. At my last match I was one of only a couple of people that had iron sights, it was a rimfire silhouette match and I was using my antique Model 19 with peep sights. I did OK though and wasn't eliminated until the last round. So on the way out though people where all looking at my rifle and saying "nice rifle". It definitely looks 75 years old.

After going thru their website it appears the only "normal" stock that would fit my varmint barrel is the "Rimfire Hunter", the description says it will take up to a 1" barrel. The quote below indicates the centerfire stocks will not have enough wood in them to do that though. You could do it, but it would be goofy looking without any rail left on the sides of the stock.



After talking to them on the phone they said they can't make the Rimfire Hunter for my Model 12, you can only get stocks their selector tool will allow. :-( The Pro Varmint will work, but it just seems a little "chunky" for what I want and the the tacticool appearance isn't really attractive to me. Plus you have to pay extra to not get it painted black. Possibly attacking it with a belt sander would help but that really ups the size of this part of the project.

Is the Pro Varmint style stock a big help in shooting prone or targets in general or something? Trying to understand the issues here.

The Pro Varmint is designed for the prone shooting and tactical applications based upon information from military snipers who gave their opinion on what stock is the most comfortable for staying on the scope for extended periods of time as well as function.

I have a Pro Varmint that I just put one on my 11/111 260 Rem build, and it is my favorite stock thus far (Prairie hunter also). It's got enough meat around the forend and barrel channel so you can open the channel wide enough to accommodate a varmint or bull barrel contour.

The black stock is actually just your basic wood (or plywood) stock. The colored ones are Laminated (pressure treated and glued) which reduces the chance of warping when being exposed to the elements and moisture.

[upinthehills]

I learned a little more about the Boyd's stocks, but I'm reconsidering the order to make changes to my rifle. Sometimes Boyd's specifies a barrel channel of .930 for a bull barrel and sometimes 1 1/16". Then they don't always offer you the choices of laminate and only the black paint. So you really have to grovel thru their site to get what you want, a model 11 bull barrel is different than a model 12 bull barrel.

Now I'm thinking getting started on reloading might be a better first choice for me. Saving money on ammo would pay for the stock, and getting range practice is probably what will improve me the most right now. The price was $28 for a box of Federal Gold Match last time.

What I'd like advice on is the types of parts to get for reloading and also the order to buy them. It occurred to me the order is important because spreading the costs over several months sort of puts my new hobby under a certain threshold in terms of things really standing out on my card statement, LOL. This is just a theory at the moment, we'll know if that works in 2 or 3 months.

My thought is that at least the first time or two I can reload my Federal brass which I have saved, then move up to the Lapua cases. I have measured a couple of fired cases and they are the same length as the new ones so I don't think I need to buy a case trimmer up front.

From what I've seen, I like the Redding mechanical scale because it has the little marks that show how far off the balance is at the end of the arm. It should be accurate to a fraction of .1 grains. Or I could start with a cheap electronic scale for the first months, it would be better for weighing things like bullets or my .22 ammo. Not sure if I would learn anything from that though.

I'm thinking of starting with the LE Wilson hand dies for neck sizing and bullet inserting because that would avoid buying a big press right away. I only have one centerfire gun so neck sizing might be enough for a couple of reloads per case? I did see a comment somewhere that these dies do not allow for compressed loads? Is thqt a problem right away?

I am really surprised at the number of powders available and also that there is not more information available on them. I think what I want is very consistent ammo, so looking for powder with low temperature variation and maybe also low copper fouling. Modern powders may be better about these things, but I can't even tell which ones are the modern powders in many cases.

My shooting will mostly be 100-300 yards ( all at targets ), but I found a 1000 yard range I'd like to try this year too. The shorter ranges are a priority getting started.

[hereinaz]

If you shoot prone or off a bench, the provarmint is designed for it and the product of years of design for the style. I love it and I'm no tacticool dude.

The problem isn't the stock design is useless, its exactly what the tactical guys use, and it happens to fit other shooting styles for the same reason.

There is no reason to torque your wrist into a contorted position with a hunting style rifle stock. Seriously, find a gun and shoot it. You may be converted, or not.

If you wear jeans and flannel, no one will judge you as a "tacticool dude". That is the tactical camouflage I prefer for the range so no one bothers me! Maybe even wear corderoy. LOL

[hereinaz]

And, be sure to get the laminate, it is sturdier than the black which is just plywood. The laminate resin is what does the trick. And, it makes it less tacticool.

[SageRat Shooter]

And, be sure to get the laminate, it is sturdier than the black which is just plywood. The laminate resin is what does the trick. And, it makes it less tacticool.


What he said^^^^ The coyote laminate is a really nice color... I actually feel it's more of a field gun then a Tacticool or tactical look. I think it blends in to the natural surroundings if you're in states such as AZ or states that have the high desert which have more light and dark brown colors...