Where did the Federal primers go?

[SidecarFlip]

No one seems to have any and hasn't had any for a while. None online, none on Gun Bot, none at Cabelas and none at my local gun shops.

I have a box of 1000 left (210's) but thats it.

Anyone know?

[homefrontsniper]

Get cci br or wolf

[Texas10]

I've been finding some at Gander Mountain. Hit and miss though.

[darkker]

Yeah, there is/will be no official press release, but here is my take.
Up until quite recently, roughly a wee over a year ago, Federal was part of the defense contractor ATK. I should shock no one that defense contractors don't give a hoot about Joe reloader, we always have been the waste market after all. ATK, if you followed the defense news world, never really made any bones about how much more money there was in selling ammo Vs. components. That's the primary driver as to why all product development and much availability of Speer products stopped. They were directed to be Federals bullet whore for factory ammo. Amidst the various sandbox skirmishes, the G was less than impressed with ATK's output coming from both the Radford Arsenal(where some Alliant powder used to come from), and the Lake City facility. So they asked General Dynamics(Another defense contractor) to come in and get things straightened out. General dynamics owns the only private powder facility in the USA, and provides something like 90-some percent of all military small arms powder. Anyway GD got Lake City humming again in a very big way. It seems that Uncle Sam was sufficiently upset, since ATK lost the contract to run Radford.
Stepping ahead a bit, ATK merged with Orbital to try and form a new super group defense unit. To help that merger get the green light they spun-off most small arms businesses into a holding company with some delightful golden parachutes to high level employees from ATK. That is Vista Outdoors.

So where does that leave us? You have the Federal brand who would rather sell loaded products over components. Under the control of the very same folks who steered the ship that way for a tidy profit in a planned spin-off, to a holding company who has been centered upon defense and law enforcement contacts. Don't expect them to drop a juicier contact, or higher margin product line, simply to take care of the reloading market.

... Remember when Hornady said their was no discontinued list? Then a distributor leaked the memo showing in fact there was? Remember about the only things not discontinued were bullets that just so happened to fit some defense contacts they held at the time....

We always have been the waste market. As such we need to be flexible to differing components, Or just buy loaded ammo. Otherwise if you forget you are at the bottom of the food chain, you start to believe things like:
Naaaaaw, we didn't stop making anything, we love you.
Yes we fought the nasty plastic gods for you, now we are the only ones with tips that won't melt.

Everyone on this board over 19 years old should be able to recognize "Just the tip, I promise" when they hear it.

[SidecarFlip]

Personally, I prefer Federal primers over say Winchester because the cup is softer (easier ignition). I switched from Federals to Winchester when reloading for my S&W 460 and immediately started having NF's something I never experienced with Federals.

Looking for the soft cup... Any other brands compare? Winchesters are not. If someone has a suggestion for a soft cup primer, I'd appreciate it. Would save me fiddling with various brands.

On pills, I only load Bergers (long gun) and Sierra and a smattering of A Frames (hand gun) anyway. Never bought any ELD's or whatever they are called and don't plan to. External ballistics on Bergers do fine for me, besides, I know Brian Litz so I have a certain dedication to Bergers.

At least propellants (for the most part) have become readily available again and the ;prices are down a bit as well. I go through a lot of H1000, Varget and Retumbo so availability is a good thing.

[Scott Evans]

I just picked up a brick of 205M's. They're out there.

[Robinhood]

Darrker, that was an insightful post with a spot of funny.

SidecarFlip, Ask Brian Litz about your primer dilemma. With his experience and contacts, I'm sure he can help.

Scott Evans, I'm thinking the 210m's are primarily what is sought(edit) in the Federal line.

[darkker]

Two K's hood...

Brian has been shooting Tula/Wolf for many years in competition.
The family that bought Berger bullets from Walt umpteen years ago, Sold-out to Lapua. Will be interesting to see what changes are coming, or if "business as usual" is really Just the Tip:rolleyes:

[Robinhood]

So, do you think the Nammo group will continue to offer the public great stuff or will they become part of the war machine as well? How much of their market is civilian?

[darkker]

The news fluff says "nothing will change", we all know that that never happens; so how much changes how quickly becomes the interesting bit.

The specific percentages of output, I'm not sure of. However Nammo has for a long time been a major wheel in the Military Industrial complex already, and purchased the "Vhitavouri" powder production capability from Eurenco(French State-owned defense conglomorate). So Nammo is owned 50/50 by the State of Norway and Patria Group. Patria is 73.2% owned by the State of Finland, 26.8% by Airbus Industries. For the culturally concerned, that makes them 50% Norwegian, 36.6% Finnish, & 13.4% French. :cool:

Unless WWIII starts I don't think that anyone will completely cut off the reloader, everyone needs a waste outlet and a side-gig for the slower "seasons". But at the same time there isn't ANYONE who actually produces powder/primers expressly for the reloader. What I think will be interesting is how much streamlining of products there will be. I see this(From Nammo's view) as a way to get into the american defense market as a "domestic" producer. But you can bet if the production capability gets racheted up a few notches, it isn't with the goal of putting a VLD on every hillbillies reloading table.

The Federal deal is somewhat different IMO, because they were building ammo in a higher margin endeavor to bolster numbers for a planned spin-off. Now the holding Co. wanting to build a massive world headquarters and testing facility in Utah. The last I read on the testing grounds plans was to chase more defense type products/needs. Need lots O cash for that ambitious of a plan in the desired time frame. So while I think we will see them again, I'm not holding my breath for Federal primers to get air-dropped into everyones homes on christmas.

One way or the other, it will be interesting to see what happens. I got a warm and fuzzy feeling very early-on in the spin off, as Speer began spooling-up for a pile of new products and a total pressure tested re-shoot of their reloading manual. However that has already been pushed back several times, and the last I spoke with one of the ballisticians a few months back; there was no definite date for completion. Was told they are "Trying for a late 2017 date, depending on how it goes". While conformal Transducers and pressure barrels are a bit pricey, they aren't hard to get ahold of. So I read into "depending on how it goes", however you wish.

[SidecarFlip]

Darrker, that was an insightful post with a spot of funny.

SidecarFlip, Ask Brian Litz about your primer dilemma. With his experience and contacts, I'm sure he can help.

Scott Evans, I'm thinking the 210m's are primarily what is sought(edit) in the Federal line.

I may do just that when I get up around Newyago in the spring. Not until then. Too much snow right now.

[Ol Deuce]

Walmart had ton of large and small primers last week here in Billings just no powder...................Ol Deuce

[Scott Evans]

There's been an import ban on Russian components (not complete ammo) for some time now, good luck finding Wolf or Tula.

[hardnosestreetcop]

One of LGS in my area has them I just bought 200 of the GM210M Large Rifle Match Primers

[yorketransport]

The only Federal primers I run are the 215's. I've had pretty good luck just finding them randomly when I check in at the gun shops. Just be prepared to buy them whenever you see them. They won't be there the next day! The other option is to just get on a backorder list and wait it out.

[BC98]

Yeah, there is/will be no official press release, but here is my take.
Up until quite recently, roughly a wee over a year ago, Federal was part of the defense contractor ATK. I should shock no one that defense contractors don't give a hoot about Joe reloader, we always have been the waste market after all. ATK, if you followed the defense news world, never really made any bones about how much more money there was in selling ammo Vs. components. That's the primary driver as to why all product development and much availability of Speer products stopped. They were directed to be Federals bullet whore for factory ammo. Amidst the various sandbox skirmishes, the G was less than impressed with ATK's output coming from both the Radford Arsenal(where some Alliant powder used to come from), and the Lake City facility. So they asked General Dynamics(Another defense contractor) to come in and get things straightened out. General dynamics owns the only private powder facility in the USA, and provides something like 90-some percent of all military small arms powder. Anyway GD got Lake City humming again in a very big way. It seems that Uncle Sam was sufficiently upset, since ATK lost the contract to run Radford.
Stepping ahead a bit, ATK merged with Orbital to try and form a new super group defense unit. To help that merger get the green light they spun-off most small arms businesses into a holding company with some delightful golden parachutes to high level employees from ATK. That is Vista Outdoors.

So where does that leave us? You have the Federal brand who would rather sell loaded products over components. Under the control of the very same folks who steered the ship that way for a tidy profit in a planned spin-off, to a holding company who has been centered upon defense and law enforcement contacts. Don't expect them to drop a juicier contact, or higher margin product line, simply to take care of the reloading market.


I'm a little late to this thread but had some clarifications.

Just curious, where are you getting the above information?

The "G" never asked General Dynamics to take over Radford or Lake City. The management contract for Radford was up for re-bid and BAE Systems won the contract. Lake City was also up for re-bid shortly after and ATK (now Orbital ATK) won that contract. They are still managing LCAAP. They have managed the facility for nearly 15 years now.

There will always be more profit in selling loaded ammunition vs. components. There’s no way around it. Any ammo company that says differently, regardless of being owned by a defense contractor or not, is being misleading. Primer production is a continuous process because it is too inefficient to stop and start the equipment that mixes the raw materials, makes the metal components, and assemble the primers. Primer availability to the reloading market is always a function of how much ammunition is being produced. Less ammunition = more primer availability and vise-versa.

Federal and CCI/Speer are managed separately. Federal has no direct say over how/where CCI puts their product development efforts. Also, ATK never directed CCI to be Federal’s “bullet whore”. Federal only loads a select few Speer-produced products into their rounds. The rest are made in house or are purchased components.

Orbital ATK was formed for both defense and aerospace. The businesses were likely separated more because aerospace and defense are both direct involvement with government. The remaining business that falls under Vista is all commercial. Businesses dealing with the commercial market are managed in a vastly different manner with different objectives. As far as I know, there were no golden parachutes for higher-ups in the (former) ATK group. They could stay with the company they wanted or leave.

[airb080]

No one seems to have any and hasn't had any for a while. None online, none on Gun Bot, none at Cabelas and none at my local gun shops.

I have a box of 1000 left (210's) but thats it.

Anyone know?
I just picked up a1000 federal 210's from midsouth. They still have them in stock.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Robinhood]

I'm a little late to this thread but had some clarifications.

Just curious, where are you getting the above information?


Well well

[LHitchcox]

An old guy who is getting out of rifle shooting just asked me if I want his last brick of Federal large rifle primers for $20. Of course I said yes.

[bearcatrp]

I emailed federal last month asking were the hell are the primers. Was told they would check with higher ups and get back to me. Haven't heard a word since. Something is going on. Was lucky to score 2000 last month of 215M's. Haven't seen any since.