Where are all these 1/2MOA Savages coming from?

[sleepy]

Here's 5 from 100 yards from a 6BR Model 12. I have another on photobucket showing 4 consecutive groups on one target, but for some reason, the top of it is cut off. When I figure out what is wrong, I'll post it.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/1hillbilly3/6mm%20BR/6BR003.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/1hillbilly3/media/6mm%20BR/6BR003.jpg.html)

[Aussie shooter]

A model 114 All American Classic, out of the box, adjusted the accutrigger and added Leupold rings and a Bushnell 3x9x40 scope. Handloads for 50GrZmax regularily shoot .7M.O.A. at 100 Mtrs and one was .484, all 5 shot groups. I didn't have a proper bench rest set up at the time. Powder 25 grs ADI 8208, ADI cases (fireformed) CCI 400 Primers. I was struggling to get MOA using factory ammo, so I took up reloading as a result... love reloading now!. I wanted to post photo's but the site won't let me. Cheers

[mbohuntr]

A model 114 All American Classic, out of the box, adjusted the accutrigger and added Leupold rings and a Bushnell 3x9x40 scope. Handloads for 50GrZmax regularily shoot .7M.O.A. at 100 Mtrs and one was .484, all 5 shot groups. I didn't have a proper bench rest set up at the time. Powder 25 grs ADI 8208, ADI cases (fireformed) CCI 400 Primers. I was struggling to get MOA using factory ammo, so I took up reloading as a result... love reloading now!. I wanted to post photo's but the site won't let me. Cheers

Try Photobucket.... That's what I found.

[RC20]

A model 114 All American Classic, out of the box, adjusted the accutrigger and added Leupold rings and a Bushnell 3x9x40 scope. Handloads for 50GrZmax regularily shoot .7M.O.A. at 100 Mtrs and one was .484, all 5 shot groups. I didn't have a proper bench rest set up at the time. Powder 25 grs ADI 8208, ADI cases (fireformed) CCI 400 Primers. I was struggling to get MOA using factory ammo, so I took up reloading as a result... love reloading now!. I wanted to post photo's but the site won't let me. Cheers

Well done!

Not only a good reloader and setup a good shooter as none of the hardware matters if the software does not do its end. :(

I have to give up on the 30-06 pencil barrel shooting idea. It sold, sigh. Disappointed

I still have the 270 and will see about getting that one lined in before I put it up for sale.

[Rich Coyle]

I guess I got one of the accurate .223 Savages. I fired several five five shot groups with it. The worst group was a .494 with the average of the six groups being .464".

[RC20]

Give credit to you self as well. Usually the hardware shoots better than we can.

I read that the best bench rest shooters can maintain a 1/4 MOA wobble (if you will, just the physics of actually holding and shooting a gun)

They can hold that orbital wobble if you will and the average is better that .250 as that is 1/8 either side.

It tells you what the very best do.

In my opinion, anything under 1/2 is very good on the shooters part and getting several in a row says a lot for the shooters ability to be consistent.

[DoeDumper]

First one is an Axis 223 that will shoot milsurp ammo to an inch or less and good ammo even tighter. The real shock however was the new 16 Lightweight hunter. Will shoot Federal Prem 95gr NBT's touching all day..... To make sure that wasnt a fluke... it repeated the process with the 95 gr Fusions..... I hate the stock but I LOVE the gun!

[CarlosDJackal]

You have to remember that how well a rifle SYSTEM groups is based on the following variables working in harmony: the rifle, the ammo, the optics, the shooter and the conditions.

If you have a .25 MOA rifle; shooting 1 MOA ammo; topped with optics that has 1 MOA parallax; being shot by a 1 MOA shooter; in high swirling, variable winds; you will never achieve sub-MOA groups. Even in calm weather.

Eliminate as many variables as you can first, find the ammo your rifle likes. I just recently discovered that my 20+ year old Savage 110FP in .308 Winchester loves the Federal Gold Match 175-grain HPBT factory loads. I thought the barrel was shot out because I could not get any consistent groups out of the PPU 175-grain FMJ-BT Match ammo. I even went back and forth between scopes because I thought they were wandering or their parallax adjustments were broken. I used to shoot nothing but my reloads out of that rifle and I may have to dust off the reloading rig to do so again.

Good luck!!

[RC20]

The nice thing about 308 is there is a lot of match ammo for it. Something will work fairly good most of the time ad you have variety to choose from.

Its also expensive, ergo, I broke out my reloading setup 5 years back when I got back into shooting.

[bsekf]

Been playing this game for 60 years. I've yet to SEE a package rifle from Gander or Cabala's, right out of the box, shoot a .5, especially with factory ammo.

Wish all of you that shoot these <.75 groups would tell us what you are using; barrel, trigger, scope, front and back rests. Are you using free recoil? Do you weigh cases, bullets, primers? Have you indexed the barrel to reduce harmonic distortion? What reloader are you using. What is the MEASURED DISTANCE TO THE TARGET and is it one group or 10?

Google and read about the Houston Warehouse by Virgil King, shooting matches are won.... and lost.... by the ability of the shooter to read the wind.

Flinch is when you can't pull the trigger, think trap shooters. Jerking the trigger, is a jerk on the trigger and usually a poor trigger.

Bill

[CarlosDJackal]

As someone who have been in this game longer than I have been alive, you should understand that there is a huge difference between a rifle/ammo combination that is capable of sub-MOA performance versus the same for a rifle system (rifle, ammo, scope, bipod/rest, shooter, etc.). The original poster was somewhat puzzled why his system seemed incapable of such performance.

I've already proven on multiple occasions that my rifles are capable of such performance as long as the rest of the system cooperate. This includes my ability to read the wind and break the shot without disturbing my sight picture. Back when I was reloading my own ammo and shooting at least 200-rounds every weekend, my Savage 110FP Tactical, housed in a Choate "Utlimate Sniper" stock, using a Harris 6-9" BR bipod, topped with an SWFA 10x42M scope; I would consistently print 3 and 5-shot groups that hovered around .75 MOA. I was also capable of calling my shots back then.

[creedman6.5]

There is no need to prove how well one can shoot.....The main problem with internet sharpshooters is that they taint the reputations of the fella's that can make a factory rifle perform well above average. Yes, some people here and there can make that factory rifle sing......and they do frequent internet gun forums. Heck, the quest for accuracy is why most of us are involved in shooting and reloading. But, in general, many more claims of consistent 1/2" accuracy from a factory rifle are simply not true. I've had a few factory rigs that would occasionally shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards but that doesn't make it a 1/2" gun......Usually more like 3/4" to 1" average......I'm talking factory rifles here............not one that's been worked over from stem to stern with little semblance of what it was when it rolled off the assembly line.

The gun club I belong to has hundreds of members that shoot there a lot....Many old, retired guys with nothing better to do than hit the range (I hope to be one of them some day!)......We host a lot of matches.....BR, UBR, Rim fire benchrest, service rifle, IDPA you name it......but there's on common theme whether I'm looking at informal targets or match targets....The consistent 1/2" factory rifle, is a rare bird. Of course there is a much larger cross section of people on the internet who love to shoot and reload so I would definitely expect there to be some ringers out there. But as far as the average gun forum board member goes, in general, I take such claims with a grain of salt. Pictures really prove nothing because anyone can make a target look good with creative editing or stretching the truth about the distance that it was shot at. There's no reason to think that any of the guys replying to this thread are lying......but for every one of you there are 100 guys out there claiming 1/2" factory guns that are simply no where near that accurate.

.....and don't get me started on folks who say just because they called a flyer it doesn't belong in the group....if it came out of the muzzle while you were shooting that group it counts, there's no way around it.

....oh and by the way....Here's my 1/2" factory gun......

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/edlafond/Weapons/20160728_135026_zpsd3crhrsg.jpg (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/edlafond/media/Weapons/20160728_135026_zpsd3crhrsg.jpg.html)

Every single hole in the paper measures 1/2"!!!!!

Agreed


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[creedman6.5]

I've had 3-4 that were right around a half inch, give or take a tenth(likely me falling short on my part. All of the rifles were model 12's (my favorite), all heavy barrels (varmint weight or heavier), and all were shooting rifle specific worked up loads. The two in particular that were consistent half inch or better rifles were not, off the shelf, and one had an aftermarket barrel. One was a m12 LRP in 6.5 crmr, glass bedded, with a brake my gs installed, and the other is a m12 with a 1:8 twist 22-250 match chambered stainless barrel my gs made up using a bartlein varmint contour blank. It is also glass bedded in a manners t5 stock, and it loves the 80gr vld load I worked up. It's probably my favorite rifle, and a coyotes death sentence. I'll get the pics from my old phone and post them later.


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/199d3d77cbb74a16a8b354ce347cc40b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/fe37f4de2f99beb193ea4b145092608d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/27d90e909929c18421f0bc8ca9c3f362.jpg

These two targets were shot with this rifle and factory v max loads, no mods to the rifle. It's a dual port single shot m12 in .223.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/b3ed1fa02d4683fbcc8718ccba0653bd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/084680f2f037b6c2ceb4d58471a3ce11.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/b21e0646b827539dc14b58e581ea1fe1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/86587bdc190ebeadbd8a136e5dd0b501.jpg
These are targets from load work ups for this m12 lrp 6.5creed. At the time of these targets it was glass bedded with a small brake installed.



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[zach_]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/199d3d77cbb74a16a8b354ce347cc40b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/fe37f4de2f99beb193ea4b145092608d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/27d90e909929c18421f0bc8ca9c3f362.jpg

These two targets were shot with this rifle and factory v max loads, no mods to the rifle. It's a dual port single shot m12 in .223.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/b3ed1fa02d4683fbcc8718ccba0653bd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/084680f2f037b6c2ceb4d58471a3ce11.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/b21e0646b827539dc14b58e581ea1fe1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/86587bdc190ebeadbd8a136e5dd0b501.jpg
These are targets from load work ups for this m12 lrp 6.5creed. At the time of these targets it was glass bedded with a small brake installed.



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Holy brake dust Batman, that LRP looks just like mine. So do the wheels.

[big honkin jeep]

Savage Arms Headquarters 100 Springdale Road Westfield, MA 01085

[dwayne.james.10]

Here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards using Fusion 140 gr

. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/db1f6454efda381db31a951d3506878d.jpg

This is 2 shot group at 100 yards using Hornady 147gr ELD. 2 round is all I had at the time.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/b6efabd750d8083d76fdc808ee847b12.jpg

Savage is producing the most accurate rifle out of the box for a reasonable price.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/0c11d421b7a1031096da64b7d3f6405b.jpg


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[zach_]

Here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards using Fusion 140 gr

. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/db1f6454efda381db31a951d3506878d.jpg

This is 2 shot group at 100 yards using Hornady 147gr ELD. 2 round is all I had at the time.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/b6efabd750d8083d76fdc808ee847b12.jpg

Savage is producing the most accurate rifle out of the box for a reasonable price.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/0c11d421b7a1031096da64b7d3f6405b.jpg


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Did you get a new scope?

As far as the thread... Everybody I see shooting, shoots a flier (a swing and a miss), now and then.

[dwayne.james.10]

Like this flier. No I did not. Same scope Nightforce

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170330/dffcf91990fe218612a6d6f37c11d45e.jpg


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[berudd]

I suspect many claims of these guns being 1/2" capable is probably because someone shot a single 3" group that was 1/2" Or there abouts. Maybe just a tad over.... Now I am sure that these rifles shoot exceptionally well. But to really be a 1/2" gun it needs to do it all the time. A single group can be luck. I once put 2 or 3 shots through a ragged hole at, I think 50 yards. The hole was literally only slightly larger than a single bullet. It was cool but it was luck. Neither I nor my rifle can do that on a consistent basis. Well, I can't anyway. ;)

[m12lrs]

Put 5 five shot groups on one target and average them. That is pretty much representative of the accuracy of that rifle.

The more shots the more representative of the statistical norm