Where are all these 1/2MOA Savages coming from?

[Wide Glide]

I would say you have potential! Get us 5 and we will know for sure.

5 shot groups are over rated. if your going for bragging rights sure a 5 shot group is good sportsmanship but for just shooting groups to practice or doing load development 3 shots is more the norm. half the time when you have people posting 5 shot groups they are calling anything that makes the group bigger a flier without re shooting the flyer.


take this photo for instance. its from recent load development. i aimed at the bullseye the first 3 then immediatly aimed to the right point of the diamond for another 3 and then the top point of the diamond for another three. if you were to stack the points of aim and the groups you could see that the group would still be under .5 for the first 6 shots then opens on the last as the barrel heats up. is there a better way to post photos?

2358

[WV1951]

We have read on here before that someone got a lemon, and after sending it to Savage, it turned out to be a lemon. It does happen. With that said, I find it difficult to believe that 3 of them would be lemons. There are so many load variances, that to give up so easily, does not do the rifles justice. I am a beginner, and was shocked at the difference in various ammo. Strictly going the factory route, my 12FV, just does not like 55's, 62's, and not crazy about 50-55's. But 68-69ers is a different story. Not always true, but generally, price =consistency. To the op. You may have to try a dozen different factory loads/brands, or a dozen hand load combinations, but I am sure you will find a consistent sub moa round. Yea, the sporter barrel does make it frustrating in trying different loads.

[toddcdozer]

No pencil barrel rigs shoot .5 MOA reliably unless they are full customs and even then it's a crap shoot. Take an average Savage heavy barrel rig in an accurate and easier to shoot caliber such as a Creed 223 or 243 and many of them will shoot .5 MOA with handloads. Almost all of them will with bedding, action screw tuning and handlapping the lugs, recoil lug, nut and face. EVERY Savage action has the capability to go .5 MOA with a real barrel, stock, recoil lug, trigger and some tuning/at home squaring. If an action won't get there it is probably a warranty issue that Savage will fix. Thin barrel 270 WSMs aren't exactly PPCs.

[foxx]

^^^I agree, except sporter barrels can be just as accurate and reliable as a heavy barrel. There is no reason it shouldn't be and my own experience proves it. It's simply a matter of finding the right load and bullet combination, assuming all of your shots are from a cold bore. Heck, I have a Savage 25-06 factory sporter that I have put as many as 25 shots at 100 yards inside a group you can cover with a quarter. That may not be .5MOA, but it's dang good, and not all that difficult.

[big honkin jeep]

They aint gonna listen Foxx. Too much internet between the ears. LOL

[Wide Glide]

^^^I agree, except sporter barrels can be just as accurate and reliable as a heavy barrel. There is no reason it shouldn't be and my own experience proves it. It's simply a matter of finding the right load and bullet combination, assuming all of your shots are from a cold bore. Heck, I have a Savage 25-06 factory sporter that I have put as many as 25 shots at 100 yards inside a group you can cover with a quarter. That may not be .5MOA, but it's dang good, and not all that difficult.

Exactly key words cold bore. That is the reason you don't see many sporters shooting groups or taking on pdog towns. When you need one true shot to harvest an animal and go home they are great. When shooting groups or taking on dog towns where you want to take multiple shots one after another there is a reason they are using heavy barrels. That's where the difference between sporter vs varmint vs bull start to show.

They may all be half moa rifles when you have all day to only shoot cold bore but when you start trying to send them down range one after another you see that after just a few shots the sporter is well on its way to a 1moa rifle. After 10 or so rds you start to see the varmint barrel following suite and soon enough the bull follows. As that barrels heats up you also have less and less time before the hot chamber starts heating the powder to different degrees depending on how long you let the round cook in the chamber hurting accuracy.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying sporters are junk or anything like that just that they are out of their element when expected to hold their own against heavy barrels at the range for more than a couple shots at a time. Although you CAN use the same rifle to shoot groups, hunt rabbits, and buffalo it's just not optimal.

Hunting deer sized or bigger game or hiking with a rifle gimme the sporter any day but for anything else there is a better tool for me to use for the job. I wished I still had a sporter today after putting a few miles on the boots hauling a 26" varmint barrel around. The 10 fcp-hs rifles shoot like dream but are a nightmare to carry

[Wide Glide]

Those are just my opinions BTW. I don't claim to be any sort of expert because I'm not so none of the above is ment to be argumentative

[Mountain Man]

Exactly key words cold bore. That is the reason you don't see many sporters shooting groups or taking on pdog towns. When you need one true shot to harvest an animal and go home they are great. When shooting groups or taking on dog towns where you want to take multiple shots one after another there is a reason they are using heavy barrels. That's where the difference between sporter vs varmint vs bull start to show.

They may all be half moa rifles when you have all day to only shoot cold bore but when you start trying to send them down range one after another you see that after just a few shots the sporter is well on its way to a 1moa rifle. After 10 or so rds you start to see the varmint barrel following suite and soon enough the bull follows. As that barrels heats up you also have less and less time before the hot chamber starts heating the powder to different degrees depending on how long you let the round cook in the chamber hurting accuracy.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying sporters are junk or anything like that just that they are out of their element when expected to hold their own against heavy barrels at the range for more than a couple shots at a time. Although you CAN use the same rifle to shoot groups, hunt rabbits, and buffalo it's just not optimal.

Hunting deer sized or bigger game or hiking with a rifle gimme the sporter any day but for anything else there is a better tool for me to use for the job. I wished I still had a sporter today after putting a few miles on the boots hauling a 26" varmint barrel around. The 10 fcp-hs rifles shoot like dream but are a nightmare to carry
Very valid points. I think the big issue is people buy a gun they will end up pulling the trigger maybe 5x a year on whitetails but they need to sight it in. Unless they happen to be really patient, they put up a pallet sized piece of cardboard @ 50 yards then blast 5-10rds making big adjustments until they get close to zero, then move to 100yd for the old "inch high at 100" deer rifle zero. At this point the barrel is warm if not hot (especially if they are sighting in during late summer before deer season) and they start making fine adjustments but they don't seem to correlate with where the bullets are landing. Frustrated, they hand the rifle to their expert buddy who trys his best but still only manages a 3" group. The two of them then light their Marlboros off the glowing barrel and start trash talking the rifle while the barrel sets the dry grass on fire.

The next time the two go out, the rifle shoots a 1" 3 shot group without issue.

Seen it a hundred times at the farm.....

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[jwrowland77]

It's amazing what reloads can do.

I have a Savage Axis Heavy barrel in .223 that I shoot in F-Class matches every now and then. I do fairly well with it.


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[10ring1]

I have a new model 12 lrp in 6.5 cm that is very heavy but with 120 amax factory or a few reloads is an honest half moa gun.

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[cs700]

My only out of the box Savage less than 1/2 MOA is a Model 12 F-class in 6br Norma. With reloads it's capable of .2 MOA at 300 yards. My hunting rifle is an Axis II heavy barrel in .243 that is now 1/2 MOA at 100 yards once I got it out of the Tupperware stock with reloads. That's the joy of a Savage that there is many options do to them to make them better.

[dranrab]

I have two Savage centerfires. Both have had but a singular trip to the range.

This is what my 223 Lightweight hunter did.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/PaulBarnard/KIMG0271_zpswoliro0d.jpg

On my 22-250's first trip to the range it gave me a .30 inch 3 shot group. I have a pic of it but Photobucket is acting wonky.

[godale]

Keep looking, there are loads, there are good loads and there are fantastic loads.
Many sell themselves short and stop at good,while others keep looking till they find fantastic.
Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to get there.
I have one 30-06 model 16 in particular that shoots about 6-8" groups with factory 125gr ballistic tips. darn thing is lucky to hit a pie plate with that load.
That same rifle has put a best 10 shot group of .446 on the paper with 165gr SGK HPBTs and IMR4350 with a CCI BR2 primer, and shoots 5 shot groups of that load consistently under 1/2 MOA. (But everyone on the internet knows the 30-06 is antiquated and not nearly as accurate as insert latest whiz bang cartridge here)
Same thing with several other rifles including a 111 in 25-06 that took a whole lot of load development to figure out that RL22 110gr Accubonds and Winchester LR primers was the ticket.
Then again maybe it was the rattlecan paintjob :)
I do know that 75gr V maxs are not on the menu for that rig.
Then there's a 12BVSS that the load just fell in my lap on about the third load I tried with 55gr Vmax Varget and a Fed 210. That load went from 2" to watch me shoot a hole through the center of this dime, with nothing more than a primer change.
Then there's a 111 in .270 that needed nothing more than factory 130gr Federal blue box power shock (the cheap stuff) to shoot stupid accurate.
I see a lot of guys throwing tons of money at rifles of all stripes and none of them shoot worth a dime with the wrong load and haven't found a Savage yet I couldn't get to shoot very well indeed with the right load.
I always recommend that someone looking for accuracy start with a basic hand loading kit which is way way cheaper than swapping even one aftermarket barrel.
Some of you guys crack me up with the thin barrel fat barrel and long barrel stuff. All of my hunting rifles turn heads at the range once load development is complete and often embarrass high dollar braggarts and tactifools. (insert excuses here) A shooter is a shooter. Keep looking for the load. It's there.

Sometimes it's quick and easy, but most often it takes a lot of trial and error, and sometimes a whole lot, to find fantastic.
If you stop once you get under 1" loads you'll never find the 1 hole load.
Good luck very well said

[Dave Hoback]

Oh, it's SUPER easy to shoot .5 MOA with any stock Savage. There are a couple things, & one EASY little trick. First, tailor reloads to each particular rifle. Then find a nice comfy spot to sit. Now the little secret trick. What ya do is go online, and simply LIE YOUR BUTT OFF!! It's SO SIMPLE! EVERY single one of mine have been .5 MOA, including the couple dozen AK-47s I've built in my life.

[big honkin jeep]

Dang Dave,
That's sure the easy way, but then you don't get to waste copious amounts of frustration, time, effort, powder, primers, bullets, and money.
What's the fun in that :)

[olddav]

If your going to lie why stop at .5 MOA ? Surely you can lie better than that!

[Dave Hoback]

Dang Dave,
That's sure the easy way, but then you don't get to waste copious amounts of frustration, time, effort, powder, primers, bullets, and money.
What's the fun in that :)

Wait...you mean like building a rifle yourself, learning to reload, develop the most accurate you can for said rifle and tell everyone the ACTUAL group size? REGARDLESS OF MOA??? Hmm... You know, that idea just might work! By Joe! I just might be able to pull it off. I already built the rifle, have the beginnings of load development. All I have to do is go shoot some groups and TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE GROUP SIZE! Boy oh boy I hope this works!

[1953greg]

a half inch rifle will be a two inch rifle w/o the correct load/bullet, esp sporter barrels. even heavy barrels prefer some bullets. i find that the bullet makes as much difference as everything else combined. you simply cannot make a barrel like a load/bullet if it doesnt want to.

[gbflyer]

Never owned a half inch factory gun. Of course I've always had the dumbest dog and got the worst gas mileage.

[wbm]

Never owned a half inch factory gun. Of course I've always had the dumbest dog and got the worst gas mileage.

lol. I hear ya! Owned a lot of Savage rifles but only two were truly less than 1" moa rifles using factory ammunition. The first was a 300 WSM and the second was a 223 BVSS.