Where are all these 1/2MOA Savages coming from?

[bowfishn]

I believe a lot of the inconsistency is shooter more than the rifle, just as heavier rifles tend to be more forgiving off the bench. But that doesn't mean a light Sporter rifle won't shoot, it just means it is more difficult for the shooter, as long as the shooter does the job it will shoot. That is given the scope is good, the bedding is good, the barrel is reasonably good, the loads are right and crown is clean. There is a saying that a lot of guys use, "The Rifle will out shoot Me" in many cases that is true, sometimes not. I have done a lot of spot shooting with my bow in the past, and there are bows that are more forgiving, that is to say if you mess up it does not matter as much and there are bows less forgiving that if you do your part will shoot just as good as the forgiving bow. Setup, setup, setup.
Also the power of the scope will allow you to concentrate on the smaller spot, leading to better groups. Although some guys do great with lower power, I am not one of them. I have to see what I am shooting at, my eyes as I get older are like a Hoover Vac they suck.

[olddav]

Maybe it's just me but 5 shot groups are for heavy barrel rifles not a sporter contoured hunting rifle.

[777funk]

Maybe it's just me but 5 shot groups are for heavy barrel rifles not a sporter contoured hunting rifle.

This makes complete sense, but I would think that if you let it cool to around the same temp each shot, all things should be close to equal as far as temperature affected barrel whip.

[bowfishn]

Sometimes I will shoot 5 but I can tell if the load is working with 3.
Many times the flyer is human error and it was the Savage Rifle that was in question with the post:
"Where are all these 1/2MOA Savages coming from?" not "where are all these sharpshooters coming from?"

[RC20]

Ok BHJ: Lets get down to brass tacks! I am at least a decent shooter.

First" We are on board with the 30-06, I love it. I think its the most versatile cartage in the world (the Mauser 7.92 comes close but its not as wide spread and doe snot have the range of bullets the 06 has. ) My first build was a bull barrel 30-06, special order on the barrel as none in the US.

30-06 though is not intended for 125 grain bullets, I know some will shoot them well etc, but this is a 1-10 twist (?) and I would not be surprised if you could not hit the broad side of a barn either. My brother has one that does shoot them pretty darned good.

What barrels do you have on what guns?

Are you shooting 3 or 5 shot groups. I am all on board with 3 shot hunting groups, you really want to wring out a gun it has to be 5 or 10.

I am going to try again on my Savage 30-06 thin, but it sure did not show anything, a good barrel particularly in 30-06 shoots every decently and then some really good.

It should also shoot factory decently. when I had my 7mm, while not a tack driver, it was good 1.5 inch day in day out with over the counter ammo.

I doubt even back then I could not hold 1.5 inch to save my life if I was standing (though I only took one shot like that)

[m12lrs]

Maybe it's just me but 5 shot groups are for heavy barrel rifles not a sporter contoured hunting rifle.

I can certainly agree with that. In that case give the barrel plenty of.time to cool between shots and shoot a 10 shot group and.you can get a pretty good idea of its consistency

[RC20]

Maybe we need a thin barrel Savage Forum!

Please note that the gun I am shooting the thins on is the same one that I shot a 1/4 inch group with, not to mention a 9 shot 5/8 inch group.

I may not be as good as some, but I am not bad either.

I do plan on going back to the 30-06 thin and 270. But if its a good barrel a FACTOR load should shoot 1.25 to 1.5 3 shot all when the barrel is kept cool.

If my clunky Ruger could do it 20 years ago, this should now.

I sure as hell should shoot with decent to danged good hand loads. 270 I know can be finicky and not surprised, but 30--06? Nahh


Yes RC20 and this is the thin barrel Savages I've experienced. The 270WSM was a stainless. Not impressed with any. I shouldn't be that harsh... 2MOA is more than good enough for a hunting rifle which is what most are after. But I'm talking target shooting. There's nothing to brag about in that category with a 2MOA rifle.

I guess that would lead me to think that the thin barrels are just not what I'm after and I'm probably looking for an action to build on.

My accurate shooter (only own one) happens to be a super thick bull barrel. I've never owned anything thin that would shoot. But... that's only been my experience. Sounds like others have had better luck with thin barrels.

[bowfishn]

The 30-06 Sako Finnbear that I inherited off my father back in the late 70's when I was working up loads for it shot 5 shots in a 1/2" if I did my part. After I got it from my Dad about 4 years ago, it would not do better than 1.5" . I checked to see if the barrel was still free floating, inspected the crown to see some wear on one side of the rifling because my father always cleaned from muzzle end without a guide. I contacted a Gun Smith who said he would install a muzzle brake as well as recrown for $80.00 more than just crowning it. (he was a friend of a friend) I got it back and it shot 2.5" groups and larger. I removed the muzzle brake and it was back to almost 1.5". I recrowned it myself and glass bedded the action and it was again shooting 5 shots in 1/2" at 100 yards. That's not to say I have had bad days at the range and only shot 5 into 3/4 to 7/8 you know 3 or 4 tight and 1 or 2 out a bit. But the next time I go it is shooting 1/2" again so I know it was me.

[RC20]

Dang, I had one from the 60s , very low SN and sold it.

Always was sorry I did not work harder on it to see if I could get loads going for it.

My take was my shooting, never liked the trigger but I think I would have adjusted.

[big honkin jeep]

Oh RC don't pay any mind to an old mans ramblings. I wouldn't know anything about brass tacks.
I wouldn't know anything about barrel profiles in multiple lengths or calibers.
I wouldn't know anything about a rifle that's not a Savage.
I wouldn't know anything about a Savage.
I wouldn't know anything about rifles that range in age from the 1800s to 2016, and I darn sure wouldn't know about the different action styles.
I also wouldn't know anything about how any of em shoot or how different loads might affect accuracy.
I read on the internet guns and ammunition are dangerous :o

PS. I have also read on the internet that a .308 diameter 125gr can do very well indeed in the right 1-10 twist barreled rifle, but that some otherwise extraordinary rifles just don't like certain loads. But I wouldn't know.
I'm just here for the conversation. :becky:

[Damon555]

It's a very simple, 2 word answer...."The internet".....Have you ever noticed that many pictures never show the whole target?

[Wide Glide]

Buying a good rifle to begin with goes a long way... would I expect an axis with Tupperware stock and cheap mounts/ optic and pencil barrel to do .5 reliably? He'll no
My 10 and 110 fcp-hs have been reliable .5 occasional .2 with full load workup. Stable barrel temp from shot to shot and amount of time a round sit in the chamber heating the powder also makes a difference. It took allot of rounds down range and allot of time at the reloading bench to realize that though. Also when I say full load workup I mean full load workup not trying 5 loads and picking the best I'm talking 2-3 powders 5-10 charge weights each then seating depths from 0.050 off the lands to 0.010 into the lands.

I could probably skip allot of that with a more expensive rifle but the cheaper the rifle the more milking it takes to shrink groups. This is why I don't shoot barrel burner calibers. I'd have the barrel shot out before I found the load I was after. For what I spent on components doing load development for 2 rifles with a target load and hunting load for each it would have probably bought another short action or aftermarket barrel.

My .338 lapua is the only savage I have that I'm not reliably getting better than .5 with. It's currently doing about .85 but only has about 100 down the tube. Haven't done a load workup for it because I haven't figured out how much barrel life I'm willing to sacrifice doing load workup.

Load workup is the fun part for me. After you find the right load for each it gets boring and I end up buying/assembling a new one. I joined here when I was selling my remington 700 and buying my first savage, it hasn't been long but I went from no savages to 6 since then and I've got another action and xcaliber barrel on the way lol.

[justinp61]

I have a mdl 16 in 260 remington and the best it's shot is about 7/8". I'm still working on loads and powders. It's plenty good for deer but after shooting my mdl 12 FVSS in 22-250 it's a downer.

[foxx]

I must be one of those lyin' internet braggarts, 'cuz I have owned dozens of Savage 10's and 110's and Axis including factory sporter and vrtmint contours and stocks, aftermarket stocks, Accustocks and plastic factory stocks, custom barrels of all dimensions. I buy new and used. I pillar and bed my own wood stocks when necessary and only use hand loads. All of them shoot .75MOA or better CONSISTENTLY. Most of them 1/2 MOA (I do not / did not get to shoot them all beyond 100 yards). I am talking 5 shot groups, not necessarily shot in rapid order. I NEVER expect a sporter barrel to shoot well for more than 2 shots without letting it cool down for several minutes. When testing, I shoot off sandbags and use quality scopes and levels (anti-cante devices). I have never failed to make one shoot at least 75MOA at 100 yards without much difficulty.

That list includes .223, 22-250, .243, 6BR, 25-06, .260, .260AI, .270WSM, 30-06, 308 and 450BM and others I am sure I just can't remember.

[Mountain Man]

The 30-06 Sako Finnbear that I inherited off my father back in the late 70's when I was working up loads for it shot 5 shots in a 1/2" if I did my part. After I got it from my Dad about 4 years ago, it would not do better than 1.5" . I checked to see if the barrel was still free floating, inspected the crown to see some wear on one side of the rifling because my father always cleaned from muzzle end without a guide. I contacted a Gun Smith who said he would install a muzzle brake as well as recrown for $80.00 more than just crowning it. (he was a friend of a friend) I got it back and it shot 2.5" groups and larger. I removed the muzzle brake and it was back to almost 1.5". I recrowned it myself and glass bedded the action and it was again shooting 5 shots in 1/2" at 100 yards. That's not to say I have had bad days at the range and only shot 5 into 3/4 to 7/8 you know 3 or 4 tight and 1 or 2 out a bit. But the next time I go it is shooting 1/2" again so I know it was me.
Yup. Some brakes just don't work. My 20" AR goes from 1.1~" groups @ 150yds with the flash hider off to over 3" with the birdcage installed. I know refer to it as a thread protector and spray painted it bright yellow so I remember to remove it when I get out of the truck. (It rides with me everywhere muzzle down in the front seat)

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[Mountain Man]

Oh RC don't pay any mind to an old mans ramblings. I wouldn't know anything about brass tacks.
I wouldn't know anything about barrel profiles in multiple lengths or calibers.
I wouldn't know anything about a rifle that's not a Savage.
I wouldn't know anything about a Savage.
I wouldn't know anything about rifles that range in age from the 1800s to 2016, and I darn sure wouldn't know about the different action styles.
I also wouldn't know anything about how any of em shoot or how different loads might affect accuracy.
I read on the internet guns and ammunition are dangerous :o

PS. I have also read on the internet that a .308 diameter 125gr can do very well indeed in the right 1-10 twist barreled rifle, but that some otherwise extraordinary rifles just don't like certain loads. But I wouldn't know.
I'm just here for the conversation. :becky:
Fully agree, I put some 90gr 30 carb bullets in the 06' a few years ago @ nearly 4000fps and it shot as well as the 180s. I stopped using them because they detonate on contact with a blade of grass and I didn't want to burn out a sentimental barrel from Dad.

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[milky7272]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161204/c12a2d8ceb54cf3ee154c5f330692f55.jpg
This is my stock savage lrp in 6.5 creedmor. I'm not a very good shot, I have owned Remington's all my life but I now own a stealth an lrp and a 110fcp in 338 lapua and savage is putting out some serious shooting rifles.


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[RC20]

I would say you have potential! Get us 5 and we will know for sure.

[RC20]

the key is you work up loads. Just out of the box with even standard hand loads not factory previous good loads, maybe not so much.



I must be one of those lyin' internet braggarts, 'cuz I have owned dozens of Savage 10's and 110's and Axis including factory sporter and vrtmint contours and stocks, aftermarket stocks, Accustocks and plastic factory stocks, custom barrels of all dimensions. I buy new and used. I pillar and bed my own wood stocks when necessary and only use hand loads. All of them shoot .75MOA or better CONSISTENTLY. Most of them 1/2 MOA (I do not / did not get to shoot them all beyond 100 yards). I am talking 5 shot groups, not necessarily shot in rapid order. I NEVER expect a sporter barrel to shoot well for more than 2 shots without letting it cool down for several minutes. When testing, I shoot off sandbags and use quality scopes and levels (anti-cante devices). I have never failed to make one shoot at least 75MOA at 100 yards without much difficulty.

That list includes .223, 22-250, .243, 6BR, 25-06, .260, .260AI, .270WSM, 30-06, 308 and 450BM and others I am sure I just can't remember.

[RC20]

Well I look forward to the day I get so good I am bored.

I go along pretty well with the rest. My getting up to speed and finding loads takes too many rounds for a barrel burner.

Pretty much the same on load work up now, I pick a range )(low or high) and I know if the powder will shoot its going to be one down lower and one up higher.

then I run them until I find one that seems to print good and then work with COAL.

Usually I run .3 increments, that's close enough that even if I should miss a node its going to be decently accurate on one side or the other and then the next round narrows it down.

I have enough information on COAL that I know where to at least start with that.






Buying a good rifle to begin with goes a long way... would I expect an axis with Tupperware stock and cheap mounts/ optic and pencil barrel to do .5 reliably? He'll no
My 10 and 110 fcp-hs have been reliable .5 occasional .2 with full load workup. Stable barrel temp from shot to shot and amount of time a round sit in the chamber heating the powder also makes a difference. It took allot of rounds down range and allot of time at the reloading bench to realize that though. Also when I say full load workup I mean full load workup not trying 5 loads and picking the best I'm talking 2-3 powders 5-10 charge weights each then seating depths from 0.050 off the lands to 0.010 into the lands.

I could probably skip allot of that with a more expensive rifle but the cheaper the rifle the more milking it takes to shrink groups. This is why I don't shoot barrel burner calibers. I'd have the barrel shot out before I found the load I was after. For what I spent on components doing load development for 2 rifles with a target load and hunting load for each it would have probably bought another short action or aftermarket barrel.

My .338 lapua is the only savage I have that I'm not reliably getting better than .5 with. It's currently doing about .85 but only has about 100 down the tube. Haven't done a load workup for it because I haven't figured out how much barrel life I'm willing to sacrifice doing load workup.

Load workup is the fun part for me. After you find the right load for each it gets boring and I end up buying/assembling a new one. I joined here when I was selling my remington 700 and buying my first savage, it hasn't been long but I went from no savages to 6 since then and I've got another action and xcaliber barrel on the way lol.