hearing protection?

[LongRange]

thanks Froggy this is the kinda info ive been looking for.

[rjtfroggy]

LomgRange read this http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/modern-comfortable-and-high-quality-hearing-protection.3848890/.
There are probably over a dozen post over there on this subject, pay particular attention to Norman he knows all about this companies products (worked there). If you need to PM him, nice guy and he will take the time to explain how they work and why they work as stand alones.

As a side note Denver Dave how much did you spend on your optics or your guns or ammo add it up you will have a surprise. I did, and I needed to do something for my hearing the buzzing after a range trip drove me crazy. IMO $300 was a cheap price for the extra protection. Like LR and a few others here I shoot some where north of 7000 rounds a year ( 2-3 times a week) I needed the best I could find, if something better comes around I will be looking at them.

[m12lrs]

Well my $15 surefire have the same noise reduction rating

[DenverDave]

LomgRange read this http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/modern-comfortable-and-high-quality-hearing-protection.3848890/.
There are probably over a dozen post over there on this subject, pay particular attention to Norman he knows all about this companies products (worked there). If you need to PM him, nice guy and he will take the time to explain how they work and why they work as stand alones.

As a side note Denver Dave how much did you spend on your optics or your guns or ammo add it up you will have a surprise. I did, and I needed to do something for my hearing the buzzing after a range trip drove me crazy. IMO $300 was a cheap price for the extra protection. Like LR and a few others here I shoot some where north of 7000 rounds a year ( 2-3 times a week) I needed the best I could find, if something better comes around I will be looking at them.

I understand your point of view. Shooting is an expensive sport and your personal health is far more valuable. From my perspective, using the Muff, plug combo (SF EP 8/10 + HL Impact Sport) with a combined NRR of 47 (I think it was) I am more than sufficiently protected. The muffs don't get in my way, I never leave the range with ringing ears or feel blast concussion. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sure a solo plug solution would be more ergonomic and less bulky however if I was to switch over to those I would be out $300 (vs $50 I spent on the muff plug). For arguably less protection (what's the NRR on those plugs? 37? I got college loans to pay. All I am saying is for me, those plugs would be a luxury item I neither need nor can afford at the moment.

No judgment on how others decide to spend there money. I wholly agree with you, most folks here have spent thousands of dollars on this hobby if not tens of thousands. Spending another $300 to take care of your health is a no brainer. However, I personally have found a solution that works very well for 1/6th of that price. But the muffs don't get in my way. That can't be said for everyone. If your not running muffs you had better be running the best plugs you can find. I believe Surefire plugs alone are not enough.

I am in no way suggesting that the $300 plugs are a waste of money. However, I would argue that a muff plug combo can provide just as good if not better protection for a fraction of the price.

Bottom line is it's your money spend it as you will. AND, taking care of your hearing should take be a top priority for shooters. One should not sacrifice hearing Protection to save a few bucks. Just my 2 cents. Take it as you will.

On a side note: HOPEFULLY within the next year or so we will all be running cans and a cheap little pair of plugs will be more than enough protection. Fingers crossed for the Hearing Protection Act.


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[LongRange]

On a side note: HOPEFULLY within the next year or so we will all be running cans and a cheap little pair of plugs will be more than enough protection. Fingers crossed for the Hearing Protection Act.


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and this is the biggest thing holding me back from spending the $300+ on a set of plugs...id rather put the $300 toward a can...i will most likely still buy a set of the plugs next month as there will still be a lotta guys at matches not running cans for awhile if the HPA is passed anyway.

[Rick_W]

I pair them with Surefire EP 7 plugs (NRR 27). Individually neither provide enough protection IMO. Combined, however, for a total of NRR 47 Protection, I fell very safely protected.
That's not the way double hearing protection is calculated. At best, you will have 32 dB NRR.

From the OSHA Technical Manual - Noise - Appendix E


APPENDIX E—NOISE REDUCTION RATING
[This appendix will be replaced when the new NRR scheme is promulgated]
Noise Reduction Ratings
When OSHA promulgated its Hearing Conservation Amendment in 1983, it incorporated the EPA labeling requirements for hearing protectors (40 CFR 211), which required manufacturers to identify the noise reduction capability of all hearing protectors on the hearing protector package. This measure is referred to as the noise reduction rating (NRR). It is a laboratory-derived numerical estimate of the attenuation achieved by the protector. It became evident that the amount of protection users were receiving in the workplace with the prescribed hearing protectors did not correlate with the attenuation indicated by the NRR. OSHA acknowledged that in most cases, this number overstated the protection afforded to workers and required the application for certain circumstances of a safety factor of 50% to the NRR, above and beyond the 7 dB subtraction called for when using A-weighted measurements. For example, consider a worker who is exposed to 98 dBA for 8 hours and whose hearing protectors have an NRR of 25 dB. We can estimate the worker’s resultant exposure using the 50% safety factor. The worker’s resultant exposure is 89 dBA in this case.
The 50% safety factor adjusts labeled NRR values for workplace conditions and is used when considering whether engineering controls are to be implemented.
Estimated dBA exposure = TWA(dBA) – [(25-7) x 50%] = 89 dBA
Though using the 50% safety factor produces the most reliable result, it is not used for enforcement purposes. For enforcement purposes, CSHOs should subtract 7 dB from the NRR without considering the 50% safety factor.
Single/Double Hearing Protection
Dual hearing protection involves wearing two forms of hearing protection simultaneously (e.g. earplugs and ear muffs). The noise exposure for workers wearing dual protection may be estimated by the following method: Determine the hearing protector with the higher rated NRR (NRRh) and subtract 7 dB if using A-weighted sound level data. Add 5 dB to this field-adjusted NRR to account for the use of the second hearing protector. Subtract the remainder from the TWA. It is important to note that using such double protection will add only 5 dB of attenuation. For an example of a calculation of dual hearing protection, see Appendix IV:C. Methods for Estimating HPD Attenuation of the OSHA Noise Safety and Health Topics Page.
For a more extensive discussion of how to use the NRR, see the NIOSH website. NIOSH has developed guidelines for calculating and using the NRR in various circumstances.
(http://www2a.cdc.gov/hp-devices/pdfs/calculation.pdf: Method for Calculating and Using Noise Reduction Rating-NRR)

[DenverDave]

That's not the way double hearing protection is calculated. At best, you will have 32 dB NRR.

From the OSHA Technical Manual - Noise - Appendix E

Ok. Well, that is good to know. I must concede that I am clearly out of my depth here...
I can only say what has seemed to work for me to this point. I guess I am not as protected as I thought.

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[RC20]

Cruising through and saw this. Thought I would add my 2 cents in (and experience)

Whne I was a kid (mid 50s) there were no hearing protection (nor bicycle helmets)

I won't say we shot a lot but certainly some, more 22 than anything, a bit of 38 Revolvers. Never a rifle (too young)

Latter a fair amount of revolver for a few years, again not much rifle.

4 years of construction, on and off around chain saws.

I was maybe 22 when I got my lesson. I was driving Rock Buggies (Euclid R35) with a Detroit 2 cycle. When the bed lifted up the exhaust was exposes (it was spring indexed into the bed, used as a muffler and a source of heat to keep stuff from freezing)

That was great, dump you load, pull away, 12 cyclers just screaming. What not to like at 22, noise, that's cool .

Then one day our buss back to the camp was late, so we were standing around talking, about 20 minutes and I could hear metal start to tink on the engines cooling down.

Hmm, birds singing now to, did that all happen just now or ???????????

When I got back to camp, I went right to the Supply Building and signed for a set of muffs.

I thought I was ok, that was until 5 years ago when I realized I could not hear. Right ear worse than left.

I suspect a the right ear is noise, the left and right seems to have been getting sick (drops came after a couple of sessions with crud)

Upshot is I have a hard time hearing conversations. I am ok with it, I did what I could but I am trying to save what I have.

Medical does not cover hearing aids, Medicaire does not and its about 3k for a decent set, not great, decent.
They are not super robust and if you loose one........
My Older brother with a similar work profile has the same issue, worse, he got the aids, he is good with them, lost one but found it latter under his cabin. Phew.


Once they came out with the plugs I wear muffs and plugs.

So I am looking at electronic aids. A cousin commented that his allowed him to hear TV and Radio (and his wife of course)

I appreciate the information.

I agree on the brakes, I think they should be segregated off to one side.

I don't see cans being a help unless they are mandatory for all. Or you can't shoot there if you don't have one.

I don't see a bunch or gun guys letting anyone tell them they have to use them.

[RC20]

I just bought a set of the Etymotic. Interesting having them on around the house.

I can hear the key taps on my keyboards very clearly now (in the X mode)

I have one in my worst ear (right side and that would have been the one most exposed to gun blast before I got smarter and got the muff on all the time, too late sadly.

I have hopes it works out better as a poor mans hearing aid as well.

As it is the right ear and my wife is a passenger when we go anywhere (great driver but I am a control nut when it comes to driving) I will be able to hear her as well I hope.

Lot of playing to do with it non shooting. If they work at the range then I can drop the muffs. They do hit the gun stock and annoying at times but worth the extra protection in that case.

More the goal of getting max reduction and knowing it does not double it.