116 shooting low.

[Berserker]

I bought a 116 stainless, composite stock, used from Cabelas. Looked close to new, sticker still on. I had them put on a VX2, 2-7. Used that for a couple years. This year I buy VX3i 3.5-10, and put it on Remington pump, both 30-06. Sighted in, but decided to put it on the 116. Batteries dead in my bore sighter, I am at camp.

So I set up big sheet of paper. 3 feet low.

When I took the scope off the 116, I noticed what I know believe are metal shims. After shooting so low, I put inside rear scope ring. Turn scope all the up until it runs out of adjustment. Still about 2.5" low at 50 yards.

Rings are Leopold, and base is two piece standard Leopold.

Cabelas never mention anything to me after they mounted it, which ticks me off. I suppose go back to the 2-7, for some reason it worked. But I do have this brand new scope I just bought.

Suggestions? Start adding shims to the base? I though you were supposed to shim base, not inside of rings. But I don't know. Different rings to raise it?


What causes this in a gun? Does savage use different bases? Is this something I should know when putting scopes on them? I have another, that still has package Nikon on it.

Either way, not sure if I will get to shoot again before deer season. Went through 60 30-06s, between 3 guns today. I saved one, just in case I forgot to get more.


I was at camp and did ot have alignment tools when mounting. But I don't think that would make this big of difference on elevation.


Thanks for help.

[Berserker]

The rear base extends over the magazine, which makes loading it a PIA. Blind magazine. Savages has long magazines, so they go in cockeyed sometimes. Cabelas said I was stuck with the bases cause I bought a Savage. Also limits me on sliding scope back.

Thinking back, why did they sell me Leupold rings and bases. It came with a scope. 1" tube is a 1" tube right?? Other them scope is black and old ones were silver, but I don't care.

[Zero333]

Are you using the same rings on both scopes ??

Maybe switch the rings, front to back and see what happens.

[Berserker]

YA same rings. I just took the top part off and swapped them out. So rings stayed with rifle.

[Berserker]

I am not sure how Cabelas had the shims. I thought they had them on front and back rings At first I thought they were to prevent scratching or movement. I tried without, one bottom of each ring, both in rear. Both in rear got me the closest.


Since it was sighted on 30-06 22" barrel, I thought I would atleast be sorta close. I had to go 15 yards to find my bullet. First shot at 50, was 3 feet or so low.

[J.Baker]

Can't say I've ever heard of anyone putting shims in the rings. Rings are machined very exacting to size (1", 30mm, etc) so inserting a shim would create a LOT more problems than it would solve. I'd definitely get some calipers and see if the main tube is out of round where the shimmed ring was.

[olddav]

Is your 116 a round back?
You are not stuck with the Leupold base and rings, EGW and Weaver sell a one piece base for a Savage long action. EGW's base is higher allowing easier loading of the rifle but will raise the scope. The Weaver base is lower making it harder to load rifle but keeps the scope closer to centerline of barrel. Others can suggest rings.

[foxx]

DNZ GameReaper as well

[Berserker]

Can't say I've ever heard of anyone putting shims in the rings. Rings are machined very exacting to size (1", 30mm, etc) so inserting a shim would create a LOT more problems than it would solve. I'd definitely get some calipers and see if the main tube is out of round where the shimmed ring was.
It is a new scope. Today I had it mounted on another gun, sighted in.

I have love and hate relationship with this gun. I think it is clumsy and crude, but it groups nice. So I took the scope off the other gun, and put it on 116. 116 was doing good with Vx2 2-7 and other gun waa ok with VX3 3.5-10.

I don't think scope is problem. This may be why the gun was sold in near new condition.

[Berserker]

Is your 116 a round back?
You are not stuck with the Leupold base and rings, EGW and Weaver sell a one piece base for a Savage long action. EGW's base is higher allowing easier loading of the rifle but will raise the scope. The Weaver base is lower making it harder to load rifle but keeps the scope closer to centerline of barrel. Others can suggest rings.


It ticks me off, to have to think about this. I haven't bought a lot of rifles, so maybe I am wrong, but it seems savage makes some problem childs.

***edit. Not the rifles fault.

[Robinhood]

It ticks me off, to have to think about this. I haven't bought a lot of rifles, so maybe I am wrong, but it seems savage makes some problem childs.

It would seem like it sometimes. You have to be a Savage smith to work on em. My question, If one scope works and the other doesn't, is it the rifle?

Is your base the type that you can adjust for horizontal at the rear?

[Berserker]

Are you using the same rings on both scopes ??

Maybe switch the rings, front to back and see what happens.
I used rings that were on rifle. Just switched scopes.


It would seem like it sometimes. You have to be a Savage smith to work on em. My question, If one scope works and the other doesn't, is it the rifle?

Is your base the type that you can adjust for horizontal at the rear?
The 116 was working with the 2-7 I had on it, that Cabelas mounted, and shimmed the rings. I put a 3.5-10 on there, that was working on a different rifle, and it doesn't work.

I never noticed before, but by shimming the rings, there is a quite a gap. Worry about length of screws.

I don't see a way to attach pictures, when I go to advanced page.

[Berserker]

Is your 116 a round back?
You are not stuck with the Leupold base and rings, EGW and Weaver sell a one piece base for a Savage long action. EGW's base is higher allowing easier loading of the rifle but will raise the scope. The Weaver base is lower making it harder to load rifle but keeps the scope closer to centerline of barrel. Others can suggest rings.

Raising both front and back of scope, lowered shot. I had to raise only the rear.

[olddav]

It is my belief that the wrong base was installed on the rifle. By installing a one piece base you will be able to correct (by bedding the base) any differance in elevation of the action/base attachment points. Once the base is installed and bedded, if required, then you should not need a shim.

[Berserker]

Is your 116 a round back?
You are not stuck with the Leupold base and rings, EGW and Weaver sell a one piece base for a Savage long action. EGW's base is higher allowing easier loading of the rifle but will raise the scope. The Weaver base is lower making it harder to load rifle but keeps the scope closer to centerline of barrel. Others can suggest rings.

Not sure what a round back is. But you are talking about this? The 10 MOA should raise me up. They say it is for making long shots over 600 yards. I still wonder why I need this?

http://www.egwguns.com/scope-mounts/egw-savage-long-action-sporter-mount-10-moa/

Edit. I see the top of my rifle is round, so must be a round back. I see that scope mount is curved to fit that.

[big honkin jeep]

Sounds to me like a screwed up mounting job.
I'm guessing somebody mismatched the rings, bases, or both.
Maybe someone looking at them in the store and mixed up 2 packages of different heights and put them back on the shelf. New factory Leupold rings and bases should not need shimming, period.
I'm with Mr. F that I 'd be darn sure they didn't kink the tube with the what should have been unnecessary shimming or mismatched rings/bases. (I'd be mad enough about the shims but absolutely furious about that)
If they sold you Leopold standard rings and bases they were in my opinion trying to do you a big favor as they are far superior to the package gun stuff (provided the right parts are in the package and the right bases are chosen) and rock solid. I prefer the two piece even if they do hang over the action a little because they by far provide the best access with the most room to the loading/ejection port.
As far as bore sighting you don't need a "Boresighter" or other special apparatus. Just pull the bolt, place the rifle in a cradle or some bags so it wont move, and then look down the bore at a distant object centering it in the bore. (you can usually see rings of light reflecting down the bore so you know you're looking straight down the center) then adjust the scope so that the distant object/ target is centered in the crosshairs. Look back and forth down the bore and down the scope a couple of times to confirm and... Bam you're bore sighted.
I wish you the best of luck sorting it out and would bet dollars against donuts after hearing your description, it's the rings and bases, Or some yahoo mounted round action bases on a Savage with a flat at the rear of the receiver because they didn't know the difference in them and just went with a package marked Savage "110" bases. Round bases wont work on a flat receiver.
Flat Receiver http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/4512114358/11363657/040.jpg_thumbnail09.jpg
Wouldn't be the first time I had seen that either. Bought one from a pawn shop with bases intended for a round receiver screwed down on a flat rear. It would certainly do what you describe.
Let me know if I owe you a dollar, if not I like Krispy Kreme glazed :)
BHJ

Here's the round receiver
http://longrangeshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/10fcp5.jpg

[olddav]

Not sure what a round back is. But you are talking about this? The 10 MOA should raise me up. They say it is for making long shots over 600 yards. I still wonder why I need this?

http://www.egwguns.com/scope-mounts/egw-savage-long-action-sporter-mount-10-moa/

You may not need a new base (just an option) but you have got to start somewhere. Try checking the rings (as good a place to start as any), they could be mismatched. If you feel they are OK then the base is the next thing to check. You may also want to remove the base and lay a straight edge across the front and rear mounting surfaces and see if there is a gap under one or the other.

[Berserker]

All good suggestions. I will look closer at the rings and bases used.

[Berserker]

I am pissed at myself for not noticing, and pissed at Cabelas for the job they did. Either the guy didn't know what they were doing, or just wanted to make the sale. The rectile wasn't level, so maybe the former or both.

The front base is around 3/32" high, pushing an 1/8. I just got in the mail Wheeler alignment rods, but noticed it before I even got them one. Ya I know I don't need them for my ranges, I just like to play gunsmith.

Pissed at all the ammo I wasted trying to site the new scope in. Even more so wondering what this did to the tube on the old VX2 or my new VX3i.

Now I need to figure out what to buy to match the front, or match the rear.

[olddav]

You may want to just replace the bases-s-s-s all together with a new set.
Glad you found the problem, and hoping it did not damage either scope!