FL size or Neck size for precision loads

[kd8cmn]

https://s13.postimg.org/bp3e0g4fr/IMG_20160930_175727_2.jpg
This is my first long range precision rifle. I've been a re loader for around 5 years now, but this is a new game. I have one question that I hope the members will be able to answer. I am loading the brass for this rifle only, so knowing this... Full length or neck size the brass to be loaded? Thank you for your comments.

[earl39]

All depends on who you ask

[kd8cmn]

I know, that's what I'm running into. One says it only needs neck sized and the other says FL for consistency.

[m12lrs]

That debate will go on forever

I have done it all. Neck size with a bushing, neck size with a collet die and use a body die and full length resizing. All methods can create competition grade ammo. I do recommend dies made by forster or redding for.commercial dies.

What I have found is I don't like donuts and if you are going to have to full length resize every 3 to 5.firings anyway why bother with neck sizing.

With a commercial full length resizing die die setup is very important. I use a Hornady headspace gauge to measure the headspace of my fired brass. Then I set the die up for a 1 to 2 thousands shoulder bump. Plenty of utube videos on how to do this.

For the ultimate full length sizing die you need a custom die made from your fired brass. Neil Jones and John Whidden are good sources.

[SidecarFlip]

End the debate simply... Fire 4 rounds sized with any applicable die and send the 4 (fired and not resized) cases to a reputable die builder such as John Whidden or RCBS and have them machine you a die based on your case dimensions. Problem solved. Keep in mind that the die will be specifically tailored for that particular chamber (and no other) but you state that 'for this rifle only', exactly what I do.

Every precision shooter I own has it's own die. Expensive? absolutely. The end result is well worth the initial expense.

[Steelhead]

I neck size with a lee collet 3 times then anneal and bump shoulder back with body die and repeat.

[wbm]

I neck size with a lee collet 3 times then anneal and bump shoulder back with body die and repeat.

Me too.

[SidecarFlip]

I neck size with a lee collet 3 times then anneal and bump shoulder back with body die and repeat.

Not trying to start an argument but I've found Lee dies to be on the low end of quality. Having said that I do use them for straightwall pistol brass sizing but that is all I used them for. I absolutely despise the Lee lock rings. Those go in the wastebasket right away. I replace them all with Hornady cross lock rings. In fact, every die I own (Whidden included) gets Hornady rings....

I do like and use Lee Collet Crimp dies. The rest are marginal in my opinion. You get what you pay for in any product, die sets included.

Never used the Lee Dipper. I guess you could use it for a cocaine scoop but in as much as I don't do drugs, it just sits in the die box, taking up room....lol

Lee die sets ate low end, beginner dies for hand loaders starting out. Much more precise and of course more expensive reloading dies out there in cyberland.

[kd8cmn]

Thank you for your comments, I will be looking into a custom set of dies.

[m12lrs]

Thank you for your comments, I will be looking into a custom set of dies.

Make sure the fired.brass you send in has been fired at least.3 times and don't resize the last time. You want.to be sure the brass is fully fire formed to your chamber. One firing does not.always do it.

I am sure whoever you get the custom dies from will give you the procedure.they want you to follow.

[yobuck]

https://s13.postimg.org/bp3e0g4fr/IMG_20160930_175727_2.jpg
This is my first long range precision rifle. I've been a re loader for around 5 years now, but this is a new game. I have one question that I hope the members will be able to answer. I am loading the brass for this rifle only, so knowing this... Full length or neck size the brass to be loaded? Thank you for your comments.

Please explain/define (long range precision). Because frankly, I didn't know (precision) was possible at long range.
So if we shoot an 8" 1000 yd group today, and tomorrow a 20" group, would better dies help the cause?
Fact is any off the shelf die would be capable of loading ammo better than the vast majority of shooters can shoot at long range.
And, any rifle/shooter combination capable of 1" 100 yd groups from a bench, will also be capable of hitting gallon size milk jugs at 1000 yds.
Wind of coarse can vary results, as it does regardless of how the ammo was loaded. But that's the shooting part, not the loading part.
I guess the question becomes is that precision? Or precision enough? Maybe not, at least for some, but it would put a smile on most faces.
If you cant get to the point of doing that, be looking for reasons other than just the dies you load with.
Id personaly recommend just using standard dies and then go shoot. You might just find they are precision enough.

[FW Conch]

Understand the concept of John Whidden dies and dies made from the same reamer the chamber was done with. My BIL does all that and anything else you can imagine.

But will someone please explain to Me why My cases fire formed in My chamber and neck sized with a LEE Collet Die are less precise than than full length sizing. MY PRECISION DIE is MY RIFLES CHAMBER :-).

[243LPR]

^^^
This! And almost 0 runout to boot.

[First Shirt]

Not trying to start an argument but I've found Lee dies to be on the low end of quality. Having said that I do use them for straightwall pistol brass sizing but that is all I used them for. I absolutely despise the Lee lock rings. Those go in the wastebasket right away. I replace them all with Hornady cross lock rings. In fact, every die I own (Whidden included) gets Hornady rings....

I do like and use Lee Collet Crimp dies. The rest are marginal in my opinion. You get what you pay for in any product, die sets included.

Never used the Lee Dipper. I guess you could use it for a cocaine scoop but in as much as I don't do drugs, it just sits in the die box, taking up room....lol

Lee die sets ate low end, beginner dies for hand loaders starting out. Much more precise and of course more expensive reloading dies out there in cyberland.

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. Yeah, Lee dies are inexpensive, and yeah, the lock rings suck rocks and need to be replaced. No argument there at all.

But right now, I'm loading for six Savage rifles in 7mm-08 (mine, my wife's, a spare, and one each for the three granddaughters, aka The Senior Minions) and I'm loading them with Lee dies mounted on a Dillon RL-550B, which anyone will tell you is not for precision work. Every one of those rifles will deliver sub-MOA groups out to 200 yards with disgusting regularity. To date, I've probably loaded 3000 rounds with these dies over the last four years or so. No issues, no problems, and no complaints. Now, I don't know if the accuracy is because of the rifles, the exquisite care taken in assembling the loads, the skill of the shooters (three of them teenage girls), divine intervention, or plain old luck, but I'll take it!

Granted, most of our non-paper targets are deer and hogs, inside of 250 yards, and that probably doesn't qualify as "precision" work. But we're all pretty happy with the results, nonetheless.

[Robinhood]

Hehe, I have "tuned" some Lee dies to deliver the goods in F TR. I have since moved on but It was because I thought I needed to. Waste of money.

[243LPR]

"Precision" means different things to different people.

[SidecarFlip]

"Precision" means different things to different people.

That is an all encompassing statement if there ever was one...

[m12lrs]

Understand the concept of John Whidden dies and dies made from the same reamer the chamber was done with. My BIL does all that and anything else you can imagine.

But will someone please explain to Me why My cases fire formed in My chamber and neck sized with a LEE Collet Die are less precise than than full length sizing. MY PRECISION DIE is MY RIFLES CHAMBER :-).

As I have said earlier all these methods can produce competition level ammo

I too used the Lee collet neck sizer. I like it better than a bushing die because it.doesn't produce donuts.

Custom dies are not.made with the chamber reamer used on the rifle. The fired brass is measured and the.die.body is.machined from those measurements. Using the chamber reamer would.make.the die too tight. The brass would not chamber.

[yobuck]

"Precision" means different things to different people.

I thought having to measure groups with calipers was precision, measuring with a carpenters tape not so much.
But to put that in perspective, think of this. The first (recognized) record group shot at the oldest on earth 1000 yd benchrest club was about 7 3/4" for the 10 shots about 45 years ago.
The record group today is about 5" smaller than that one.
So its taken thousands of good shooters shooting hundreds of thousands of record rounds with the best possible equiptment to accomplish that.
And the group can still be measured with a carpenters tape in inches and fractions of inches.
The idea of a custom die using the same reamer that cut the chamber originated a long time before John Widden. Many of those shooters used them and still do.
Have you ever sat and watched a cat chase it's own tail? lol

[shagerott]

Neck size once you have fire-formed the brass to your chamber. Fire and repeat. Depending on brass, anneal as needed. As in posts #6 and #7.