Bullet run out

[foxx]

Match. They aren't cheap, though.

[SidecarFlip]

I just started selling eggs to Chinese immigrants from Cuba...

I would assume you suck eggs....??:p

[The Old Coach]

Gee whiz, what are you using for seating dies? I took a flyer at measuring runout years ago, and even with ordinary RCBS seating dies I never saw more than about .002". I quit bothering with it.

[Iowa Fox]

I like using a runout gage to check my process while setting up, especially new dies. Once I get things fine tuned I don't use it. I have found some full length sizing dies where the expander ball is a horrible culprit for pulling necks crooked. Seating dies are also an offender when it comes to runout. The best thing is to keep good written notes in a notebook.

[SidecarFlip]

One issue with sizing dies is the expander ball is off center and it pulls the necks out of concentric alignment with the case when sizing. Whidden overcomes the alignment issue by adding an 'O' ring between the stem fixing hut and the die body. That allows the stem to float and it's an easy addition to any die, I employ the 'O' ting on all my dies now no matter what brand. Additionally, John used 2 'O' rings on his bushing dies, one on the stem and one on top of the bushing locating nut. Everything is able to self align that way. Neat idea and easy to copy with suitable sized 'O' rings.

Before I used Whidden dies, I spent considerable time fiddling with expander ball stems getting them concentric with the die body (RCBS) is especially bad, but adding the 'O' tings and allowing the stem to float eliminates the side thrust and neck deflection. Lots easier that way.

When I shot a group on any load workup, I never consider the first shot as viable. Same thing when you go hunting, you send the first one to 'foul' the tube and then hunt, ot you foul the tube at home before you hunt.

I've also found that the larger the charge the tighter the groups get (all other aspects being right). I like talking them up to where I start to get heavy bolt lift and back off 1/2 grain or so. I don't recommend that for the faint at heart however. In fact I don't recommend it at all. What works for me may blow up in your face.

[m12lrs]

That is why I use a co-ax press. the die is floating and can self center.

for those who consistently have runout less than 0.002 I would like to see your loading setup and procedures.

[LongRange]

does a consistent .003 or less count?

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1474720153.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1474720153.jpg.html)

bullet run out is another part of reloading i spent a lot of time field testing in a 260rem and a 300wm and also something i stop worrying about 4 or 5 yrs ago.

[Robinhood]

I suggest checking RO after sizing but before loading or seating. If the cases are bent at the neck then you will know if it is a sizing or seating process.

[SidecarFlip]

Don't matter if the die 'floats' or not. It's internal misalignment within the die itself. Just because the die is free to move has no bearing on the alignment of the decap stem / expander ball when sizing.... and the die only floats in a Forrester when there is no pressure on it. Once you apply pressure, the die don't move, that includes your Whidden seating die.. Like I stated earlier, John employs rubber 'o' rings to allow internal assemblies to flex a bit, and you can retrofit any die by any manufacturer.

In actuality, there is usually enough slop in the shellholder to case to allow the case to 'float' anyway or at least until you apply pressure, at which time everything becomes rigid.

[Robinhood]

A floating expander or anything else has little to do with it. It is induced stress. When you pull the expander back through the neck the shoulder can get distorted. If you have ever checked neck R.O. on cases( after sizing) comparing neck sized, collet sized and full length with and without the expander ball.

The point being that with brass that is too hard, too thick in the neck, uneven thickness or the combination of the dies neck and expander causing greater sizing force the possibility of inducing run out on the downward stroke is increased. I have pulled the expander for sizing, reinstalled it and then pushed it through on the up stroke with positive results. If I can find that Tee I will post pics.

[m12lrs]

Well I have pretty well tried it all. Full length sizing, neck sizing, full length sizing with a neck bushing. collet neck sizing, body dies and neck dies. I do different stuff with different rifles.

For my most accurate rifle I have a neil jones full length sizing die made from fired cases and one of his micro seating dies made for an arbor press. Runout is nonexistent most of the time. Of course I have checked the sized brass for runout and culled out all those that don't pass inspection. I also anneal after every firing for this gun alone.

for my other precision rifles I use a mix of full length sizing and bushing neck sizing and I use the Wilson micro in-line-seater and an arbor press. Anneal every three firings. that is when I full length size brass that I am just neck sizing. Kind of getting away from neck sizing only just because every 3 to 5 firings I am full length sizing anyway and that just messes up consistency.

[LongRange]

I have tried all of that as well and have found FL sizing every time produces the most consistent and accurate ammo.


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[SidecarFlip]

I own lots if dies in lots of different calibers and there isn't one neck sizer in the bunch.

[Robinhood]

I am a full length guy myself. If my expander ball is .004 greater than the inside of the sized neck I hone the die or turn the necks.