6.5x284 load help

[Jezzro2004]

So this is the second time I've played with working a load up for my Savage predator hunter 6.5x284. This time around I used the following ingredients:
Lapua brass fire formed, uniformed primer pockets, and flash hole.
123 grain Hornady Amax
CCI BR2 primers
IMR4831 powder
Bullets seated .055 off lands due to long throat and shortness of the amaxs
Shot all groups in 91 degree weather letting rifle cool about 10 minutes between each five shot string. Now you experienced people here is some crazy questions, I recently purchased and been loading with the Wilson dies and press.. Most of my velocities and close in one or two groups I've got a really low or high number in some groups which is leading me to believe it could be inconsistent neck tension due to the neck being sized on the outside of brass that has not been turned. Idk... I've also noticed that every round that has been fired in the rifle since I purchased it new, after shooting the spent cartridges neck is so tight that a bullet will not slip down in it. However I have the standard size bushing with my Wilson neck die and it does size the neck back some but it's very minimal. All the groups were shot from a solid bench with front a rear bags. What's everyone's opinion of what's going on based on what you see and hear? What is everyone's opinion on what you would do or try. All powder charged were double checked on rcbs 502 beam scale and on my Hornady auto dispenser/ scale. The rifle has less than 200 rounds through it and was broke in using the shoot one clean, shoot five clean type method. I clean about every 25 rounds now. Rifle has a 20 Moa base, bushnell elite 6-24x50mm scope, Burris rings
groups are at 100 yards

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/attachments/f28/64668d1473301569-6-5x284-load-help-image.jpg

49.5 gr
2835 (fouler)
2842
2840
2819
2771 (low for some reason)

50.0 gr
2875
2874
2888
2873
2892

50.5 gr
2918
2909
2940
2925
2922

51.0 gr
2940
2945
2953
2914
2995 (high)

51.5 gr
2969
2972
2985
2974
2965
Attached Thumbnails - Click to View Larger

[cowtownup]

Well, I have been in your shoes before and I'll probably be there again.. It can be frustrating. I guess I would start by asking why you choose the 123 A-max and the IMR4831 for this rifle. I think H4350 or H4831SC would be a more ideal powder choice. I also think you are giving up a little bit of BC with the 123 class projectile over say a 140 grain projectile and that also may help you get closer to the lands compared to the 123 Amax. However, if you got access to the IMR4831 and sitting on a bunch of 123 Amax's then I certainly understand that...

But back to you question on this particular bullet/powder combo.. You can really see the vertical dispersion on the 50.5 and the 51.0 load and I guess that is due to the high ES you observed. I'm not sure what happen with the 49.5 load since it had a decent ES but also show a large vertical spread. The group at 50 is the best at .902 moa but I'm not so sure I wouldn't chase the 51.5 charge even though it was slightly higher at 1.06 moa... I ran this powder bullet combo on Quickload but I don't know your OAL cartridge length and the case volume in grains of H20 but it appears that you are under pressure quite a bit.. You may very well find a good load down there and be great but just know that you got a little farther to go before you get to max pressure. There appears to be a node at around 52.0 grains according to QL and some rough data I've put in... If you want to send me your OAL cartridge length I'll try to get you closer. You will still have to play around with it to find exactly where its at...

I would shoot the same test but load 3 each from 51.2 to 53.0 in 0.3 grain increments... Thats 21 shots total and maybe a few sighters in the middle to take the cold bore shot out and get dialed in. Sorry for rambling but I hope i've helped you some.. Good luck with it..

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x256/cowtownupp/TgtGfx_zpsvqxgka1c.jpg (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/cowtownupp/media/TgtGfx_zpsvqxgka1c.jpg.html)

[Jezzro2004]

I appreciate the input and time. I first tried the 140vld Berger some time ago I had a half decent group with those shooting from a bipod no more than I got to fool with it at the time, however these brass were neck sized with a Redding neck die non bushing type. Which I don't have now but am considering buying again. As for the bullets and powder I got this time. My buddy had a creedmore and gave me a bunch of 123 gr amaxs and the powder I chose so I could use with my .243 as well for the time being. These groups I'm fixing to post are 140 vld Berger with h4831sc at .040 off the lands, 51.0 grains is a six shot group.

Now back to the amax 123 gr the coal on those are 3.093, and 2.516 at the ogive
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160908/d56c5fb89d8a312587f7ee73599c54b1.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160908/a0f7e326b711ba7fc946fd197b5b6025.jpg


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[Jezzro2004]

Btw the velocities I have for these pics of the 140vld are
50.0 gr
2620
2643
2676
2598
2622

51.0gr
2716
2734
2758
2746
2695
2668



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[cowtownup]

I know what you mean by consolidating powders vs calibers.. I do the same thing.

I've adjusted QL to the info you've provided and 51.5 is right on the node using optimal barrel time (OBT). I would shoot 3 shots of the following charges and re-evaluate.. (put the stickers on one piece of cardboard and shoot round robin so we can evaluate POI for each charge)

50.6
50.9
51.2
51.5
51.8
52.1
52.4

Those VLD groups look more promising than the 123 Amax.. I've had good luck with the 142 SMK's in my 260 Rem... They shoot the same as the 140 Berger Hybrids and cost just a few dollars less. Good luck with it.. Again, this is just my opinion on where I would go from there... It may be dead wrong but I think you will find something in that range...

[Jezzro2004]

I shall try it in the next day or so and post up the results. I do think I'm gonna buy the Redding neck die back as I feel like it uniformed the neck tension inside better. I do appreciate your help very much. I've had a tough time with this gun. Not a lot of information floating around about this caliber in a factory gun.


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[cowtownup]

No problem.. I've had my best luck with a Forster Bench Rest die set.. That 6.5-284 is a barrel burner so you need to find the load pretty quickly..

[243LPR]

2600-2700 sounds slow for 140's. I get more more than that w/my Swede with sub 1/2 moa @ 200.

[Jezzro2004]

Yeah that's the bad part. 243LPR That out of a 24" barrel?


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[243LPR]

26" CBI heavy.

[Jezzro2004]

So I had a quick change of heart, after seeing that original load I was playing with I decided to go back and try the H4831SC and Sierra 140 gr HPBT, and to top it off I ordered the Redding neck die I originally used. I got to say I was more impressed and believe I may be back on track of getting somewhere. Only thing I regretted was I shot 1 fouler, and should have shot 2. My first 2 velocity readings were low due to the clean barrel but after about 2 it started to level out some. I like the length and bc of the 140 grains. One thing I noticed was the case necks after sizing with the Redding were gripping the bullet about .003 which was quite a bit tighter than the Wilson die. But as you can see in the picture my 1st was the low velocity reading and it went high from the rest of the group so the plan is now to shoot from a dirty barrel and see what I get with the same load which was 50.0gr of H4831SC maybe go a little above below and see what happens. I will post my results as I continue my testing. There's not a lot of info on the ol interwebs about this particular rifle and caliber to go by. I do appreciate everyone's help and time. Follow along and offer any opinion or advice.
Lapua brass fireformed, uniformed FH and PP
Sierra 140gr
50.0 gr H4831SC
CCI BR2 primer
Coal @ ogive 2.536
Case runout was around .002 my bullet runout was pretty bad I don't know what I could do to improve that much, I'm used the Wilson chamber seat die.

Fouler.) 2791
1.) 2807 (shoulda have been a fouler)
2.) 2821
3.) 2829
4.) 2846
5.) 2837
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160917/8b8d89a67a79baf80d33378774e38c8f.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160917/66ab0b2034a7f621efc9388341cfcd07.jpg


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[Jezzro2004]

also was getting a lot of bullet runout with the amaxs and the Berbers before that, with the amaxs led me to believe that the bushing die was sizing the slightest amount of imperfections to the inside of the case neck as my case and neck runout was good but bullet runout a different story... We're talking .007 -.008 bullet runout folks.
So for this load I'm fixing to test again I decided I would try to fine tune a little more and try again... This time playing with the die and press after seeing .003 to .004 case neck runout which I knew was from the expander, but wanted to keep the expander in place because I didn't want to make my neck tension which was already snug any tighter.
My end result was sizing the case neck, while I had the case neck in the press and the ram ran up in the die I screwed the expander ball upward as far as I could get it to go. After trying this method I was pleased to see case neck runout of .001 and less. What a difference. I loaded up my 50.0 gr of h4831sc and carefully seated some 140 sierras. I got to say after seeing bullet runout of .002 and some even less near the ogive it should be interesting to see if and what the difference is on paper.... I will continue to keep this post updated on my results.
Here's a video of one of my concentricity check after seating the bullet
https://vimeo.com/183235421


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[Jezzro2004]

Well got time to shoot the more concentric loads I had today, I was pleased with the results.
I'm not sure if I'm capable of tuning any better maybe you reloading gurus could help me out some on that.
Here's today's velocities from 50.0 gr of the h4831sc this time from a dirty barrel.
1.) 2791 cold bore fouler on another target
2.) 2799
3.) 2794
4.) 2821
5.) 2793
6.) 2810
Funny thing is the velocity from shot number 1 past 2 times I have shot have been the same, that's pretty crazy.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160919/4159a4bbb65e99b6f7a8071ad8c62f3b.jpg


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[Hotolds442]

Accuracy seems to be there, but velocity is a little short of what the cartridge is capable of.
We're getting right at 3000 with 140's and 57.5gr of Retumbo and seeing the same or better accuracy.
If you're wanting to push them a little faster than what you're currently seeing, there are options......

[Jezzro2004]

I wouldn't care to have them a little faster but don't see getting too much more with a 24" barrel, might give it a try in the future though.


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