Savage PRS Tactical Suggestions

[Bigt240]

I'm wanting to build a PRS style rifle for some local tactical shoots. Budget is 1500 for the gun. What would you do?

Barrel - cal, contour and twist
Stock or Chassis - which?
Action/trigger - sa vs la, accutrigger?

I'm torn on which way to go and need some suggestions. I currently reload for 223 and 308 and have built a couple of great shooting savages.

Thanks in advance!

[cowtownup]

I have the same question.. Interested in PRS matches also...

[Robinhood]

6mm and 6.5mm are the most prevalent calibers. I'm thinking any quality barrel is good. when you think its something you may continue doing a bartlien would be a good choice.
Stock - Manners
Short action with a SSS trigger.

Savages are not found at the higher levels according to some of the guys around here.

What the pro's use (http://precisionrifleblog.com/category/what-the-pros-use/)

[LoneWolf]

If you want to run a Savage you'd be better off buying a Stealth off the shelf than building one. You'll be money ahead with that choice. I don't know of their feeding and ejecting reliability as that was always my issue.

Whether you're reloading or not go 6.5 Creedmoor with an 8 Twist and shoot a 140 Class bullet.

I could get very detailed, but just keep it simple.


"The strength of the wolf is the pack, but the strength pack is the wolf"

Proudly sponsored by Apache Gun Works

[Rob01]

I'm wanting to build a PRS style rifle for some local tactical shoots. Budget is 1500 for the gun. What would you do?

Barrel - cal, contour and twist
Stock or Chassis - which?
Action/trigger - sa vs la, accutrigger?

I'm torn on which way to go and need some suggestions. I currently reload for 223 and 308 and have built a couple of great shooting savages.

Thanks in advance!

Caliber is first choice. If you want to try and win and do well in open division then get a 6.5 or 6mm. If you wanted to shoot Tactical division then go with a .308. Your choice. For contour, a med palma/rem varmint and heavier would be fine. Twist, 6.5 go 8, 6mm go 7.7, .308 go 10 or 11.

Stock or chassis is a personal choice. Quality offering in either will work. Up to you but if you want to shoot PRS then you NEED a DBM.

Short action and whatever trigger you like.

If you wanted a Savage to go into the sport then get one in the caliber you like and with a DBM. You can buy a rifle like the 10T or similar and then just drop in in a chassis with a DBM or a stock with similar bottom metal.

[Bigt240]

This is great info! I've read through the what the pros use links quite a few times.

Does anyone have a current setup that they run?

I've been around the world on the caliber debate 6 vs 6.5 vs 308. I've even considered 243 as an option.

Now let's apply this to a typical savage. I have a model 10 action from an fcp-sr. Would a choate stock with a cdi or accurate mag dbm be worth while? I really like the bobby hart lrt laminate on my target gun but not sure how it would hold up to abuse. My other option is the xlr tac lite element?

Caliber I'm still up in the air. 308 I have everything, could start right away and buy all of the reloading components for a caliber swap. 243 I could load for other hunting rifles in the fam but would need the components. 6.5 Creedmoor I'd be starting from scratch and my local stores don't carry much of the h4350:( I would need to look at other powder choices.

Ejection/extraction not to sure on options here other than the sss kit?

[LoneWolf]

Run 308 and when I switch over to 6 Creed I'll have two barrels and all the dies up for sale for 243. You can do everything with 243 that you can do with the other 6mm, but it's nice to be able to seat them longer in the mag!


"The strength of the wolf is the pack, but the strength pack is the wolf"

Proudly sponsored by Apache Gun Works

[Rob01]

Here's my current main rig which I have been using since 2008. It's a GA Precision built 6.5 Creedmoor on it's third barrel. I am a huge fan of the Creedmoor. The factory loads are very accurate and relatively inexpensive compared to .308 match loads while giving you much better performance.
Specs:
GAP Templar action
Manners T3 stock
Badger DBM
Bartlein 27" Med Palma 8 twist barrel
Seekins ATC brake

http://i.imgur.com/zCZrObu.jpg

The .243 is a very viable option. I shot one from 2004 to 2008 and still have one to shoot if I see the need. Loaded with 105-115grns bullets the .243 works very well as a long range round. The good part is it uses the same powders as the Creedmoor. If you can't find H4350 then IMR4451 is a good replacement that is also temp insensitive. If you go with either the 6.5 or 6mm offerings I would recommend at least a 26" barrel. You can get very good velocity and not have to push it hard.

I would not recommend the Choate stocks. They are ok but the XLR is a much better option. So is a McRee.

[Bigt240]

That sir is a nice set up. Anything you would change? How much does your gun weigh?

[Rob01]

Thanks. I wouldn't change anything. Took years to figure what I like to run. Tried different stocks but always came back to the standard stock feel more than a vertical grip. Just what I like. All my match rifles run that same basic set up so they feel the same.

Weighs about 16 pounds now. It was about 18.5 when I had the 28" MTU barrel on there.

You have the action so just buy a good chassis or stock and a barrel and you will be good to go.

[darkker]

There certainly are cartridges that can gain meaningful velocity from longer barrels, but the Creedmoor isn't one of them. Been saying it for a few years now, based off our pressure testing.
There are some who have scoffed at some of my posts to this effect, and the testing we've done. Here is another look at the point.
http://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-creedmoor-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/

[Rob01]

Example of one barrel. The round was developed around a 28" barrel. People want to cut them short then that is their decision and money. I have been running them at 26-28" since 2008 and I don't have to push them hard to get good velocity.

[Rob01]

Here is a breakdown of some actual PRS shooters and their barrel choices as far as length.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

[darkker]

Correct, the one reference out of many that I posted, is a sample size of one. The two rifles we've Pressure Tested with the same components, corroborate that data as well.
My point is that the difference seen in barrel length, when using the same bullets and powders, is much smaller than some would have you believe when discussing the Creed.

The PRS results show if you will look over time, that certain items come and go in popularity; based not upon function, but what was used by the more successful people regardless of design changes.

There is always more than one way to accomplish a goal, I agree. Inferring barrel length is critical, flies in the face of that sentiment.

[LoneWolf]

When shooting competitively you look for every edge you can get. PRS is one of the most demanding if not the most demanding shooting sport as far as precision goes. 100fps may not look like a lot on paper, but I can't tell you how many times I've missed targets by .1 Mils in matches. That's the difference down range. That's why the majority of highly competitive shooters run a 26" barrel or better. .1 to .2Mils make a big difference in these events! It doesn't matter if you're shooting a 308, 6.5, or 6.

[Rob01]

One barrel out of many. Could be a fast barrel or a slow barrel in the test. Who knows. You can't take one or even two barrels and make a 100% determination. Showing that as fact is wrong. What if the op listens and gets a 22" slow barrel and isn't happy? He has to live with the slow velocities. If he gets a longer barrel and finds he doesn't need the length it's cheap to have it cut back. But looking at what length barrels are used in the sport I have been shooting for 13 years I know people go with longer barrels in the 26-28" for their rigs. Hell I got a couple friends who shoot the Tactical division and one has a 33" barrel on his .308 and the other has a 31" AND a suppressor. These are top shooters too. They know the advantage of speed.

OP I am not trying to steer you wrong as I know about this sport. I have been shooting prs before there was a prs. Talk to others in this sport and see what they recommend. I would be surprised if many say they want short barrels. The ones that do are usually new as well and think they need them to get around the obstacles. You don't.

[Bigt240]

I'm probably going with a 24-26 inch barrel based on my research. Question for you guys as I'm sure there are a ton of lurkers learning with me so all opinions and feed back is welcomed, with the new berger 200.20x bullet does that put the 308 back into contention wit the 6s and 6.5s?

[Rob01]

Might help the tactical division guys but I don't see any open guys going back to .308 because of that bullet. It's only 8 grains less than the 208 ELD M which has a .670 BC but most people shooting tactical are using the 175-185grn bullets now. I am sure some will try the new bullet though. Good to have new things to try.

[Phranque]

Here's a thread I started with a question for the board, but I also posted a pic of my current build... With the cost of the donor action, the XLR Element chassis, and the yet to arrive barrel, this would be well within your $1500 rifle budget. And I love the Element chassis!!

http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?52244-Middle-of-a-build-decision-to-make

[darkker]

One barrel out of many. Could be a fast barrel or a slow barrel in the test. Who knows. You can't take one or even two barrels and make a 100% determination. Showing that as fact is wrong. What if the op listens and gets a 22" slow barrel and isn't happy? He has to live with the slow velocities. If he gets a longer barrel and finds he doesn't need the length it's cheap to have it cut back. But looking at what length barrels are used in the sport I have been shooting for 13 years I know people go with longer barrels in the 26-28" for their rigs. Hell I got a couple friends who shoot the Tactical division and one has a 33" barrel on his .308 and the other has a 31" AND a suppressor. These are top shooters too. They know the advantage of speed.

OP I am not trying to steer you wrong as I know about this sport. I have been shooting prs before there was a prs. Talk to others in this sport and see what they recommend. I would be surprised if many say they want short barrels. The ones that do are usually new as well and think they need them to get around the obstacles. You don't.

I have no argument with the notion of your individual choice in length, but you can't have it both ways. The argument of a "slow barrel" is a herring to the issue being discussed. The post I linked isn't the only test done on this subject, you know that. On various forums, I've been showing actual Pressure data and velocities for a few years, one idiots tests. LowLight on the Hide has also been testing and shooting shorter barrels in the Creedmoor for some time, a second for the good of the order. Now the link posted is a third; but again, not the only out there.
If you question the numbers so, why not do a test of your own and post your results? What is "wrong" is telling someone that all the numbers are bogus, but refusing to offer any contrary data.

Is there a difference in barrel length? Yes.
Is the difference a critical one for the intended use? No, it isn't critical. If someone doesn't have a ballistic calculator, they can use the numbers provided in the article to get an idea of how little it is. Now if they think that amount is a big deal to them, by all means, throw on a longer barrel. But don't threaten them with the boogeyman, give them the info and let them decide for themselves.

Most book data is shot from SAAMI minimum spec test equipment. Mass produced rifles aren't that tight, so velocities will always be lower at the same cartridge pressures. Since we are talking about aftermarket barrels, they should(many do) provide specs and standard min/max differentials for tollerances. So fear of a "slow barrel" from someone who gives specs, is a bit like being afraid of the dark.

Again, listing PRS popularity isn't an endorsement of as you stated, 100% facts either, it's as much a report of following the leader. I make no bones about anyone's talent in that circuit, most are extremely accomplished shooters. When someone uses brand X and dominates a sport, while it can be related to, is doesn't, in fact MEAN the only reason they won is because of using brand X.