need to rework loads after ptg bolt head?

[Wide Glide]

considering buying a ptg bolt head for my savage .223 because i've got cratering with just over book starting loads. it doesnt seem to effect performance and doesnt start piercing primers any sooner than i would expect from any other rifle. problem is i like using the first signs of cratering as a sign that i am reaching the upper levels of the safety window. at this point it seems to just be cosmetic but it bugs me.

i've never worked up a load for a rifle then changed things so im worried that if i change the bolt face, the loads i've worked up will need to be redone from the ground up. is that likeley?


i believe this photo will show what im talking about. the rows from top to bottom start from book starting to book mid loads in 0.3gr increments. the cratering stays looking this way untill just over book max where it starts piercing like would be expected

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8388/29101052162_b106c59ebb_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LkyuWE)

[foxx]

I'm thinking you're way over pressure and replacing the bolt head is least of my concerns for you.

[Robinhood]

What is the firing pin clearance?

[foxx]

I am sorry.

I thought you were starting "just over book" and going up from there, thinking it was okay to exceed max charges as long as you don't pierce the primer.

[drybean]

Looks like a normal savage bolt face to me, oversize firing pin hole or undersize firing pin

[Wide Glide]

What is the firing pin clearance? sadly I'm not sure. I am not familiar with how to measure that.


Looks like a normal savage bolt face to me, oversize firing pin hole or undersize firing pin yes that is what I was thinking from what I've seen online but I was hoping to fix it because I like to be able to use it as a pressure sign while working up new loads.

[Robinhood]

yes that is what I was thinking from what I've seen online but I was hoping to fix it because I like to be able to use it as a pressure sign while working up new loads.

Really!!!???

[Wide Glide]

Really!!!???

Yes. I was taught to watch for cratering and to consider it an early warning that the load is bordering being too hot. Until buying this savage that has always worked well for me. I'm not trying to milk every fps I can just trying to put holes closers together. That photo shows primer cratering with charges from 22.5gr to 24gr. My nosler manual shows a 24.5gr min and 26.5gr max for my powder/bullet combo

[Robinhood]

Looks like a normal savage bolt face to me, oversize firing pin hole or undersize firing pin

Pay attention to Drybean

I saw a guy at the range that would increase his load until the primers pierced. Then he would back off. He told me that was the way he was taught. Very confident he was. Then I showed him his bolt face and the firing pin clearance.

I don't think I have ever seen an accomplished shooter reference primer cratering as a sign of overpressure without firing pin clearance being an issue. I would like to hear BigedP51's input here.

[Wide Glide]

I'm not saying I usually load until I start piercing primers then back off. Just that I've always backed off when I'd see cratering. Of anything else I've reloaded for I've never encountered cratering until I was approaching book max.

Worst case scenario I can gather is I'm taking it too seriously and loading lighter than I could so I don't see what being cautious of cratering can hurt. I'm always open to learning something new though. I have no problem admitting I have a lot to learn and appreciate all the help I can get

[JW]

Here is some good information on your issue
Long read but worth it
Page 2 has some good pics
Jack

http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?48595-Question-Regarding-Primer-Blanking%85

[Mozella]

Don't forget to re-set your headspace when you change bolt heads. It's easy, but you need a go gauge, barrel nut wrench and a barrel vise. Plenty of instructions on the Internet.

Before you buy, ask around at the range to see if you can borrow the required tools. They're hard to tear up, so it's not unusual to find guys willing to lend them, unlike a chain saw or a girlfriend.

[earl39]

HA I would loan my girlfriend before I would loan my chainsaw. But the wrench and gauges are loanable and the deed can be done in about 5 minutes including removal from and replacing in the stock.

[Wide Glide]

Here is some good information on your issue
Long read but worth it
Page 2 has some good pics
Jack

http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?48595-Question-Regarding-Primer-Blanking%85
Ill get to work on that this afternoon. Thanks


Don't forget to re-set your headspace when you change bolt heads. It's easy, but you need a go gauge, barrel nut wrench and a barrel vise. Plenty of instructions on the Internet.

Before you buy, ask around at the range to see if you can borrow the required tools. They're hard to tear up, so it's not unusual to find guys willing to lend them, unlike a chain saw or a girlfriend. I've already got the tools to adjust headspace but Texas10 gave me another idea in one of my other threads. Me mentioned I could order a few new firing pins and cherry picking one that is closer to the size of the hole in my bolt face. I'm leaning this way hoping to avoid having to rework loads. The current bolt face is only a month or so old with about 300rds fired. The current firing pin on the other hand I'm unsure of, it came with the action and a .308 bolt face

Also for some reason my notifications stooped working this morning and when I try to check them via clicking the subscribed threads link it says I'm banned forever?

[LongRange]

Yes. I was taught to watch for cratering and to consider it an early warning that the load is bordering being too hot. Until buying this savage that has always worked well for me. I'm not trying to milk every fps I can just trying to put holes closers together. That photo shows primer cratering with charges from 22.5gr to 24gr. My nosler manual shows a 24.5gr min and 26.5gr max for my powder/bullet combo

am i reading this right? your loading BELOW book mins? if so not a good idea...just as bad and worse than OVER book maxs.

[Wide Glide]

am i reading this right? your loading BELOW book mins? if so not a good idea...just as bad and worse than OVER book maxs.

Yes I always start at or below book starting loads. It is a habit that carried over from pistol loading where extremely light loads that are just enough to to cycle are common. I have never heard of this being dangerous. Please explain

[Wide Glide]

Google agrees with you. Apparently although extremely common with pistol loads it's said to be dangerous for rifle. Thanks for schooling me on that.

[LongRange]

these are not my words but you get the idea here...

"When the powder level goes below the flash hole, the small hole in the webbing at the base between the primer and the powder. The flash from the primer can shoot over the top of the powder. Powder is designed to burn not explode. There are 2 theories about what happens when a gun blows up from a under charge, the first is the primer lights too large of a surface area across the top of the powder causing to much powder to burn at one time causing a catistrophic failure. The second is that the flame of the primer goes over the top and starts the front of the powder charge on fire and burns backward towards the bolt face reversing the intended shock wave causing once again a catastrophic failure. I say these are theories because they have failed to be duplicated in laboratories so can not be confirmed, but the experts say they have seen guns blown up from a reduced load."

also remember if your shooting reduced load and get a squib load(bullet dont exit the barrel)and you chamber and fire another round if your lucky your going home missing a few body parts or not looking the same....stick to what the book tells you until you know a little more about hand loading for rifles.

[LongRange]

Google agrees with you. Apparently although extremely common with pistol loads it's said to be dangerous for rifle. Thanks for schooling me on that.

your google foo is strong grass hopper.

[Wide Glide]

tried measuring a few things with digital calipers

with my cheapo digital calipers im consistantly getting readings of

0.055 firing pin protrusion
0.069 pin
0.074 hole

so it seems the pin is right about where it should be so im guessing my chances of finding one big enough out of a few from midway wouldnt be the greatest. im starting to think that a new bolt head is about my only choice. that scares me because i've invested quite a bit of time working up loads with multiple bullets for this rifle and im afraid changing bolt faces will negate all of that time and money.

can anyone give me an idea of what to expect? what are the chances my loads will still perform the same if i switch bolt faces? i hs'd tight against the go gage originally so it shouldnt be hard to get real close. which would have a better chance of both solving the problem and having my loads still perform the same cherry picking from 20 firing pins or buying a ptg bolt head and trying to get as close as possible to the same headspace using go gage/or fired brass?

is this really something everyone just accepts and arent bothered by? besides driving me mentally insane it doesnt seem to be causing any problems right now.