Home gunsmithing

[foxx]

Norm....Jim....

I'm just asking your opinions based on what you've learned......

Do you think the elections will change these "definitions" of what manufacturing is? Or is this something that is going to be permanent?

The "culture" I speek of is hard to change. Once a department of the government feels empowered to and responsible for certain duties or whatever, it is hard to draw them back. It's human nature.

[Apache]

That's what I'm afraid of. It's a lot harder to undo a law than to pass one.

[foxx]

Also, I mentioned earlier that I spoke with a rep from the State Department today (or yesterday????). We spoke for over an hour, and he told me he was not at liberty to discuss it any further, but there are MORE regulations coming. MORE restrictions based upon this department's "stretch" of their interpretation of their own authority. What we have seen thus far is only the tip of the ice berg. He added, though, that they are relying on US and our input to help them figure out what is "reasonable and doable".

For example, he was almost suggesting that it is not their intention to stop you from building barrels for bolt action sporting rifles, (or maybe me from building and selling 450BM's to deer hunters in southern Michigan), but, at the same time, they don't necessarily understand the ramifications or the unintended consequences of their actions. As I see it, that means there are good, reasonable people making policy within the State Department that may be on our side, but there is also those who do not want to protect our niche.

[Apache]

In your OPINION........if the Republicans win the presidency, will this be reversed?

[foxx]

Better chance than if the Dems win. There are enough Dems that want to shut us all down...


If I read this guy correctly, the State Department has no issue with you building Savage Pre-fits ( or me building Savage 450BM's), but they don't know how to allow one (us) and not the other (ar-15's). They probably don't want you to build ar-15 barrels, though.

I encourage you to make your case with them.

[Apache]

The problem is I build for the AR's also.......nor do I think it's right for them to try and regulate AR's out of the reach of anyone that can legally own one.

I may contact them, but I don't like letting the Feds know anymore than I have too. I just don't trust our government anymore....no matter who is in power.

[Robinhood]

I just don't trust our government anymore....no matter who is in power.

That almost sounds like you live under tyranny

[foxx]

I understand, Jim. and I agree.

We gotta fight this under principal for all within the industry. However, we also gotta make our case with those in power where we think we might win. I am with you, Jim. 100%. Believe me, it was not easy for me to write and ask for clarification as to whether what I wanted to do fell under their authority or not. I hated to divulge anything to them. However, I did not think I had a choice, once I knew the regs and their intentions and interpretations.

[foxx]

That almost sounds like you live under tyranny

I think we do, Robin. I really do. It's just that a lot of people have yet to feel it.

To quote the Doobie Brothers: "I ain't blind and I don't like what I think I see..."

[DrThunder88]

In your OPINION........if the Republicans win the presidency, will this be reversed?

With the exception of the 94 AWB being allowed to expire, has there ever been a reversal of federal gun control legislation or executive order? On the other hand, I'm sure we can think of increases in gun control under a Republican-controlled White House and Congress.

[Robinhood]

To quote the Doobie Brothers: "I ain't blind and I don't like what I think I see..."
The other day I heard Buffalo Springfield and I thought about the current assault on our rights. Theres a man with a gun over there, telling me I got to beware.....

[J.Baker]

This might prove useful to you guys

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/08/obama-hits-gunsmiths-costly-registration-requirements/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=bfae738ddf-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-bfae738ddf-20569821

[scope eye]

I am just curious where does that $2250.00 number come from, it's just odd.

Dean

[Texas10]

I am a relative newbie on this site, and know that little of what I write commands any respect from you guys, but you might consider this from my years of owning a business built upon my reputation and skill.

Small businesses are rarely the target of new regulations, especially ITAR regs. With this reputed Executive Action, and now it has become clear is NOT an EA, we see bureaucrats trying to improve their regulatory reach with regard to a law that's been on the books for a long time.

That's a big SO WHAT? in my book. For now, you can just ignore it, and if the regulatory agency in charge thinks YOUR business falls under the scope of the law, they'l send you a letter stating such, which you can copy your to congressman if you find it'll adversely effect you business.

As far as the fee associated, it's pretty small, all things considered. IF you're operating a small business, less than $500k a year gross income, you can probably get the fee waived, or a least it is a tax deduction. It's really not a game changer unless you're a micro business, then your small fry as far as the Gov't is concerned.

My business fell under one of the most heavily regulated industries in America. Remember the 9/11 attacks in NY? I got a call two days later stating I had to give up my entire customer list, addresses, phone numbers, Credit cards, SSN's, everything.

I ignored it. And sure enough, cooler heads prevailed and within a couple of weeks, it all went away.

So don't get your knickers in a knot on this, and especially don't advance the idea of any kind of insurrection. That'll just give the loonies more ammo to use against us.

Regardless of who is in the Oval Office next year, we have a Republican lead House and Senate, and the NRA has a powerful lobbying force. The Senate may change a bit in the upcoming election, but I read nothing about a predicted wholesale change to Demo in both houses, Trumps big mouth notwithstanding.

So relax, chill out, have a beer, and stop watching FOX network, in fact you might just cut your cable as I did. Your blood pressure will drop dramatically, and you'll be a lot happier overall. I got a Roku stick on my TV and pick and choose what I watch. Couldn't be happier.

[SigForLife]

For those gunsmiths and manufacturers that are unaware, I also recently did an article on the Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax - If You Thought ITAR was Bad...Firearms and Ammunition Manufacturing, Importing (and Gunsmithing) Taxes (https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/08/01/if-you-thought-itar-was-bad-firearm-and-ammunition-manufacturing-importing-and-gunsmithing-taxes/).

[Apache]

I am a relative newbie on this site, and know that little of what I write commands any respect from you guys, but you might consider this from my years of owning a business built upon my reputation and skill.

Small businesses are rarely the target of new regulations, especially ITAR regs. With this reputed Executive Action, and now it has become clear is NOT an EA, we see bureaucrats trying to improve their regulatory reach with regard to a law that's been on the books for a long time.

That's a big SO WHAT? in my book. For now, you can just ignore it, and if the regulatory agency in charge thinks YOUR business falls under the scope of the law, they'l send you a letter stating such, which you can copy your to congressman if you find it'll adversely effect you business.
(clipped)

First, let me say I KNOW there was no intent for insults or disrespect in your reply....nor were any perceived on my part.

This entire regulation IS DIRECTLY TARGETING the small fry businesses. My business consists of ONE employee.....ME. The profits on prefit barrels are not all that great once you figure in all of the costs involved in producing them. Then you still have all the normal business costs of local, state and federal licenses, fees and such. The IRS gets more than their fair share also....then $2250 divided among, say 100 barrels just to keep it easy math.....is $22.50 per barrel. This is directly the result of this so called fee. For me.....it has to get passed to the customer directly therefore driving up prices. My larger competitors can afford to absorb these fees somewhat and likely will not have to raise their prices as much if at all.....So where does that leave me?

A larger company will be able to absorb it relatively easily. Me on the other hand......well the writing's on the wall. The Feds are targeting me and my kind. They do not want me in business. And as you've correctly stated, I'm VERY small fry in the government's eyes......but don't think they will not pay attention to small fry as you've mentioned.....just ask the IRS if they will look away from small business just because you're small. Since I'm such small fry....do you think my email to my senators and congressman will really have any weight to it? Let answer that one for you......NO. VERY unlikely. It will surprise me if I get any response at all.....I MAY get some kind of form letter thanking me for contacting them. But even that hasn't happened yet.

I'm just a lower middle class white man trying to make a living in a country that has decide it doesn't like me anymore. Doesn't like the job I do. Nor has any respect for the values I stand for. And people wonder why I'm paranoid.

[Texas10]

Thank you for your kindness, Apache. I was about to delete my post, sure that I was about to get hammered by the flame-throwers from hell. So I'd like to respond to your response.

First of all, your business is not driven by lowest cost. You are the business, and your workmanship is what draws customers to your site. So I really don't think this will be a big impact to your business. IF it were me, I'd just add a separate line item to your billings that details your new ITAR fee. Say $25.00 per barrel. As an example, every flight school in America used this technique when gas prices rose extraordinarily fast. It was a line item surcharge, and I can say that my business remained robust.

If your customers gripe, just point them to your/their congressman by handing them a pre-printed letter advocating your position, with address and have them sign and send it off.

If EVERY effected gunsmith does this, Congress will be inundated with letters from today forward until the law is stricken.

Think of the power of this.....every transaction by every effected business begins including a letter with pre stamped and addressed envelope.

Yes, i know...lots of extra work for a couple of months (wait until congress returns from summer recess).

Or better yet, start an online letter signing campaign. Or do both. Form a collaborative with other gunsmiths, share the workload.

You or I don't have millions to buy face to face time with our congressman, (even though mine lives just over the fence from me) but they do read their mail. So print something up here, I'll print it out and sign, tie a rock to it and throw it through his friggen window if that's what it takes. LOL ....just kidding. His office is only a mile away and I've been there before. I'll hand deliver it to his very attractive assistant. Wait, no.....that's even more likely to get me in trouble.....:crutch:

[J.Baker]

Every write-up and discussion I've seen on this thus far focuses on the gunsmithing aspect of it and totally ignores Section 3 - Registration Required Other Than Manufacturing which states "Assisting foreign persons in the design, development, and repair of firearms may constitute the export of a defense service (see 22 CFR § 120.9) and require ITAR registration with and authorization from DDTC." That's the part that would apply to me and this site and my other firearm related sites. The DOS deliberately leaves it as vague and unspecific as possible with the "may constitute" langauge. Well what "may" and what "may not" exactly?

I've basically decided that for my purposes it's just going to be business as usual around here until the Jack Boots show up at my door telling me to stop. They decide they want to fine me $1 million for running a website I'll say fine and walk down the street to my attorney's office and tell him to start drawing up bankruptcy papers. They want to throw me in prison for 20 years for running a website so be it, the way I see it I'll be out of business and no longer have an income so that will just ensure I have a roof over my head and 3 hot meals a day for the next 20 years, and when I get out I'll only have a few years until I can draw Social Security (assuming it still exists at that point).

[Texas10]

I admire your tenacity, Mr. Furious however, I would hope to see a craftily worded letter as a sticky on every board on your site, along with a list of addresses to send to.

I say we give'm hell.....in writing of course.

[foxx]

Lord knows I want to fight this and contribute to the effort in any way possible. Of course, I, too, have a lot at stake currently, but as a matter of principal, as well.