260rem to 6mm creed

[Rob01]

A 6mm won't win you matches over a 6.5. The shooter will. Both work equally well if you can shoot them. I have a .243 and a couple 6.5 Creedmoors. Just different tools to grab depending on the match being shot. Have had a .243 since 2005 for matches and the Creedmoors since 2008.

Nice looking and shooting set up though. I am sure it will serve you well. My next 6mm will be a Creedmoor.

[LoneWolf]

The 6mm definitely provide a slight edge. I see it in the score card very often. Take a years worth of matches and 6mm will be at the top at least 70% of the time. You'll have 6.5's in there as well or even an occasional 308 or some other cartridge, but the majority at the top are normally 6mm.

The fact is if you take someone who was highly competitive with a 6.5 or 308 and give them a 6. Their scores will further improve simply due to the increase in the hit percentage within 800yds which is what most of our shooting is. At 800yds and in you could say the following, 308 has a 60% chance, 6.5 has a 70% chance, and 6mm has an 80% chance of hitting. That's difference in the calibre choices for tactical precision matches.

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[LongRange]

A 6mm won't win you matches over a 6.5. The shooter will. Both work equally well if you can shoot them. I have a .243 and a couple 6.5 Creedmoors. Just different tools to grab depending on the match being shot. Have had a .243 since 2005 for matches and the Creedmoors since 2008.

Nice looking and shooting set up though. I am sure it will serve you well. My next 6mm will be a Creedmoor.

thanks Rob

i agree 100% it boils down to the shooter when all else is equal but like LW pointed out and I've seen first hand the 6mm dominates the long range game...I'm shooting 5.5moa flatter with the 6cm at 850yds compared to the 260 barrel I just pulled off this action...I've shot a 260 for a long time and placed 6th out of 22 shooters in my first practical tactical match last weekend...as I said I agree it's more shooter at the end of the day but I expect to do better with the cm as its a lot easier to drive...like going from a bicycle to a nascar lol...next matches are in August but I think I'll shoot a 1000yd F-class...not for score but just to see how it performs.

[Rob01]

Flatter is nice in UKD matches but it seems like all the PRS matches now either give range or allow LRFs. In the few instances that you shoot UKD at matches the flatter trajectory will help. Running a 105 Hybrid at 3050fps gives you about 7.2 mils to 1000 and 1.9 mils in a 10mph wind. With my 140 ELD-M load at 2850fps I am at 8 mils of elevation and 1.9 mils for the 10mph wind. You gained .8 mils flatter trajectory or about 29" flatter. But the wind is the same and the wind is the most important thing. If running the 6mm gives you a mental edge then go for it but the reality is that it's not any real advantage unless you get a UKD stage. Sorry. Don't want to burst your bubble as the 6mm Creed is a very good round but you aren;t gaining much except some elevation over the .260. Been running "PRS" matches since 2003 and have played with them in matches over the years. The time I pull out the .243 is for flatter trajectory only.

[LongRange]

you are running about 130fps faster than I was in my 260.

i know you know your stuff when it comes to all of this and I respect that but(and not being a smart a$$ it's an honest question)if the 6.5mm is all that then why are more shooters shooting 6mms over the 6.5mm? Especially since the 6.5mm has better barrel life.

[Rob01]

i know you know your stuff when it comes to all of this and I respect that but(and not being a smart a$$ it's an honest question)if the 6.5mm is all that then why are more shooters shooting 6mms over the 6.5mm? Especially since the 6.5mm has better barrel life.

Just a tidal shift. Back in the 2005-2008 the .243 was THE round to use. Then the Creedmoor came out and people started shifting back to the 6.5s including the .260, which was in limited use around 2003-2005 mostly by Terry Cross. Then the 6mm Creedmoor came out and did what the .243 did but with a little less powder in a better case design and people started going back to 6mm. It goes back and forth as they both work equally well. It comes down to the shooter.

What length barrel you have on that .260? I run 27-28" on my Creedmoor and it's easy to get that speed.

[LongRange]

That's what I figured after talking to others and lots of reading.

24" on the last two...I've shot from 30" down to 24"...I could of pushed it up to 2800-2850 but it was so accurate at 2720 and the ESs were in the 6-8fps range...plus I chased velocity for several years and have found that fast isn't always consistently accurate and is hard on things.
i had a krieger chambered the same time I had the bartlein chambered that I just pulled...I was shooting 130g Berger hybrids at 3050fps with RL-17 it lasted 741 rounds before I started having issues...long story short...my smith sent it back to kreiger and they are looking at it...hoping to get an answer back this week.

i have no illusions that the 6mm is going to try me into David tubbs lol but I do think it's going to improve my scores and if not I'll go back to the 260...the bartlein I just pulled only has 219 rounds through it and a stupid accurate load worked up.

[Rob01]

Yeah speed is hard on things but I want the most of my match rounds I can get for speed and accuracy. No reason running a top fuel dragster at 55mph ;) Obviously going fast and not accurate isn't the best thing but usually having over 2800fps in a 6.5 Creedmoor or .260 isn't a hard task. 741 rounds is a very short life. Must be something wrong with that barrel. My first Creedmoor barrel went about 2300 rounds before the throat started to go and that was with 140s between 2825 and 2900fps.

The 6mm Creedmoor might very well help with less recoil and better performance than your .260. It's a very good round. You should get close to 2000 rounds before you start having issues with the throat. Good luck with it. It should serve you well.

[LongRange]

No reason running a top fuel dragster at 55mph ;)

LOL thats funny...and hard for me to stop doing...ive always looked for speed but am trying to balance things between speed,consistent accuracy and life of components...i will shoot it at 3050 for a match or two and see how it preforms and if not up to snuff ill run it up faster...42gs is probably right at 3100 maybe 3150 now.

theres a short range tactical match here on the 16th ill shoot in and post back with thoughts on how its running...and if i can get 1800 rounds id be very happy with that.

yes there was something wrong with the kreiger...there was a loose spot right about the middle of the barrel....it was VERY accurate for those 741 rounds at 895 it was throwing fliers pretty bad....kreiger agrees that even running it with the 130s that fast the barrel should of lasted at least twice as long...ill post up what they say.

[rjtfroggy]

LR I'm not versed on the 6 Crede but when setting up the 243 Win. the guy at Berger told me to shoot for right around 2900 fps with the 105's. He was right on the money, at 2890 it shoot most days in the mid to upper teens at 100. Problem was the barrel burned out at 1440 rounds.
Now with the 6 br I'm at 2709 with the 105 target (not hybrid) and it is high teens to very low 2's.
Maybe try a little slower when trying different seating depth.

[LoneWolf]

1400-1500 is what's expected as far as match quality rounds with a 6mm. The speed is what gives it the advantage over the 6.5. If you're going to run those speeds might as well run a 6.5...

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[rjtfroggy]

LoneWolf I'm almost at book max with IMR 4895 and would have a hard time stuffing more in the BR case. Right now I have single digit ES and tiny groups so I satisfied where I'm at.

[LoneWolf]

That's the limitation of the BR case. The Dasher has been performing well as it hits the 3000fps mark, but you need a CRF action to run it from a mag and lots of fire forming. The node for the 105 hybrid as well as the DTAC is in the 3050 range. Some run 3100-3150, but it gets squirrely to often and easily for my taste at those velocities!

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[Rob01]

Around 1400 rounds doesn't seem like much at that slow speed with a 105. My last .243 I shot the 115s at 2990fps and was at 1880 rounds when I sold it and it was still a 1/2 MOA shooter. I am shooting my .243 now with the 105 BTHP at 3080fps with H4350. We will see how long it goes but I am expecting closer to 2000 rounds.

[rjtfroggy]

It still shot .5 but in short range BR you need to be in the teens or low .2's.

[Rob01]

I didn't know you were running it in BR comps. Thought the BR came up as talk about the 6BR cartridge.

[LongRange]

Rob what barrels are you running?

[Rob01]

I run Bartlein barrels. Been very happy with them.

[LongRange]

Me as well...very happy with bartlein.

[LongRange]

after loading a few rounds last night and feeling the difference in felt seating pressures i decided to clean up the necks on this brass...these two pieces are the two extreme spreads with a few close to the same and most falling somewhere in between...i measured several pieces and set my tool to just clean up about 30-40% the necks but as you can see some of them were much thicker than others...these two pieces were 2xs fired,FL sized,annealed and trimmed to 1.917 and all from the same lot...my ESs where averaging 16fps with no case prep so im expecting the ESs to drop into the single digits(or close)now with a more uniformed neck tension...

well the videos arent working so heres a crappy pic...

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1468065405.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1468065405.jpg.html)


http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/th_1468063484.mp4 (http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1468063484.mp4)

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/th_1468063500.mp4
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1468063500.mp4)