New barrel trouble

[darkker]

s a loads I have tried have been 162 grain eldx with 69-73 grns of retumbo, loaded .015 from lands. 180 berger vld with 69 grain of retumbo.



Velocity is 2900-2910 with 180 berger 162 I don't know yet. Both loads are below max listed

Yikes!!!!
So you loaded the 162's but apparently didn't chrono them? Fine enough, so the 180's.
You are roughly 2 grains below max with the 180gr. Yet you are matching Max velocities, and you didn't have any alarms going off in your head?!!

Your powder is significantly faster than current Hodgdon data. You don't have "the same" powder as they tested, so you can't use the same charges.

Grains don't tell you pressure, velocity tells you pressure. Velocity is the result of pressure pushing the bullet. Ignore all charge weights and read as many manuals as you can. Velocities are all very very close to the same. Only charges differ. Which is yet another confirmation that powder lots, differ. Just like the "Drop 10% when switching lots" warning on that powder bottle.

[Robinhood]

Velocities are all very very close to the same. Only charges differ. Which is yet another confirmation that powder lots, differ.

Yes, We all know that chamber dimensions, freebore, throat and bore dimensions and finishes have no effect.

[Hotolds442]

The die is not sizing the brass enough.
He pretty much proved that in his very first post.


Either you're not setting up the die correctly or you're headspace is next to zero which will not work with belted cases.
Or his chamber or dies are off spec, in which case the dies may never be able to resize for proper function. Until we see some measurements of his fired cases, it's all just a guessing game.

Are you using a headspace comparator or a bump gauge when sizing ???
That would be a start. It would at least tell us whether the finished rounds are anywhere near capable of being chambered in a rifle chambered to spec.

[yobuck]

Yes, We all know that chamber dimensions, freebore, throat and bore dimensions and finishes have no effect.

Only because they might affect pressure, which is the cause of what?
But I don't agree on the need to have a chronagraph in order to obtain good safe velocity, anymore than I think we need a wind meter.
With the programs available today, we can determine the actual velocity by the ammout of elevation weve added to the scope.
Fact is velocity numbers from a chronagraph are often found to be in error by actuall shooting.
Which poses a strong argument for just picking a ballpark velocity number and confirming the actual number by shooting.
Anyway we wont know the velocity until after the bullet exits the muzzel. So in that respect, is listening to what the gun says about pressure more or less important than what a chronagraph says?
Personaly ill trust the gun, and when it speaks I'm listening.

[local41]

I have the following measurements from fired case
Base of case- .526
Belt of case- .5355
Just above the belt .520
Bottom of shoulder. 490
Neck .3145 ( outside)
.284 inside
I understand the importance of checking velocity, but I feel there is more to pressure than that. If velocity was a tell all wouldn't we be able to achieve the same velocity in every barrel? What happens when my velocity is low, and I see pressure signs , do I just keep going until I get there, and assume my rifle and conditions are the same as the test lab.
Even if I were to overpressure by a long way how would brass get bigger than the chamber? I'm not trying to be a wise ass i just feel like some guys want to point out that everyone else is a fool if you don't do something their way.

[Hotolds442]

I have the following measurements from fired case
Base of case- .526
Belt of case- .5355
Just above the belt .520
Bottom of shoulder. 490
Neck .3145 ( outside)
.284 inside


SAAMI minimum just above the belt is .5136 (+.002 tolerance) You're .0044 above the maximum dimension.

Http://www.precisionrifleblog.com/2012/10/30/7mm-rem-mag-chamber-print/

[wce323078]

does it happen with factory ammo? I had the same thing happen with my .300 win mag. not to my rifle but to my buddies he had a moose down and had to finish it off but had left his spare shells in the truck, I gave him one of my reloads and it would not chamber in his rifle. fit fine in the other 3 .300 win mag. in camp. his had a tighter chamber then the rest. later I got checking into this and found this article on Innovative technologies web site after reading this I ordered his resizing die for belted magnums and no more problems. So if you are having the problem with factory loads when resized I would say your chamber is a little over sized just at the belt or just above. Check it out nothing to lose.

[Zero333]

I don't recommend snugging the barrel up to the go-gauge and tightening the nut because when you tighten the nut the headspace shrinks. Thus making it smaller than the go gauge. What I do is to back the barrel out a hair or snug the barrel up to a go-gauge with a piece of masking tape on the head of it, so it compensates for the shrinking when the nut is tightened. After you tighten the barrel nut, it's very important to cycle the go gauge again to make sure the headspace didn't shrink too much after tightening the nut.

If your die is not bumping the shoulder, I assume you have a headspace comparator or a bump gauge to know this. So you should send the die back and have it replaced with a good one.

Maybe all you need is just a body die to size above the belt where the FL sizing die can't reach.

You will find the problem soon, be patient and verify the basics, like the length of a fired case from base to datum and the same measurement after you run the case through the FL sizing die.

[Hotolds442]

Put the old barrel back on and set the headspace the same way.
With virgin brass, shoot a couple of rounds. Measure said rounds above the belt. Resize them without changing your die setup.
Measure again above the belt. See if they will chamber after sizing. Seat a bullet without powder and primer. Check to see that they chamber in the old barrel. Reinstall the new barrel. Set the headspace as before. See if the dummy round will chamber. Report back with the results.

[RC20]

I don't recommend snugging the barrel up to the go-gauge and tightening the nut because when you tighten the nut the headspace shrinks. Thus making it smaller than the go gauge. What I do is to back the barrel out a hair or snug the barrel up to a go-gauge with a piece of masking tape on the head of it, so it compensates for the shrinking when the nut is tightened. After you tighten the barrel nut, it's very important to cycle the go gauge again to make sure the headspace didn't shrink too much after tightening the nut.

If your die is not bumping the shoulder, I assume you have a headspace comparator or a bump gauge to know this. So you should send the die back and have it replaced with a good one.

Maybe all you need is just a body die to size above the belt where the FL sizing die can't reach.

You will find the problem soon, be patient and verify the basics, like the length of a fired case from base to datum and the same measurement after you run the case through the FL sizing die.


That is not necessarily true.

With the Pencil barrel on my 111, it did just that.

The bull barrel was just the opposite, it would open up and enough so that the no go gauges was almost half or 3/4 of the bolt hand turning to closing.

Something in the combination of the weight of the barrel did not turn, thread difference and the nut was pulling the barrel forward a bit and opening up the headspace.

Not a problem, just a matter of turning in and out but in this case the in was against the go gauge (bolt them undone) and then testing both again after nut was torqued.

With no go gauge, it was per normal where the bolt would not begin to close.

I do note the OP did state he used both gauges when he did it.

It seems like the evidence being presented by the OP is being ignored by some.

He is also right that velocity is not the issue when at low levels he has the same problem.

Velocity is only an indicator of pressure when you get a sudden increase in speed over previously increase per powder amounts.

While it best to look at all, he has no signs including sticky chamber.

[RC20]

Put the old barrel back on and set the headspace the same way.
With virgin brass, shoot a couple of rounds. Measure said rounds above the belt. Resize them without changing your die setup.
Measure again above the belt. See if they will chamber after sizing. Seat a bullet without powder and primer. Check to see that they chamber in the old barrel. Reinstall the new barrel. Set the headspace as before. See if the dummy round will chamber. Report back with the results.

OP has stated he used new brass, he has stated it closes on the go gauge and will not close on the no go gauge.

[RC20]

Pack up the gun, some fired cases and the die and go visit a good gunsmith.

Quote unquote, one of the good gun smiths in the area.

I am doubtfull (at least as far as chamber reaming goes) but that is what the OP posted.

I am not sure I would let him have anything at this point.

All indicators are the reamer is way out of spec, or the wrong reamer.

Not to pile onto your problem, but one reason I ordered pre done chambers are the barrel makers do that for a living.

If I was the smith, I would be asking for the barrel and or would be checking my reamer. Brass I would give him, the die no. Its sized previous 7mm just fine.

He sounds dubious to me.

Do you have access to your old barrel or another Savage 7mm Rem Mag? One of those the more information you can get before you deal with him the better.

[Hotolds442]

OP has stated he used new brass, he has stated it closes on the go gauge and will not close on the no go gauge.
Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my suggestion of putting the old barrel back on (which you obviously missed so as to make it sound like your original idea in your next post) and taking measurements compared to the new barrel. So what if the headspace gauges work. They test nothing above the belt which is where I suspect the problem lies. And as far as it goes, a gunsmith that would not share a reamer print with me after chambering a barrel for me will never see another thin dime from me. It's not the dies. It's not the headspace gauges. It's not the brass. It's not the reloading process. And it's not the velocity.

[jsthntn247]

A hall of fame benchrest supposedly super guru Don Geraci chambered a 300 win mag for me a few years back and it did exactly everything you are describing. He used a dull reamer and it cut and oversize chamber. I had the barrel set back by someone competent and no more issues.

[RC20]

Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my suggestion of putting the old barrel back on (which you obviously missed so as to make it sound like your original idea in your next post) and taking measurements compared to the new barrel. So what if the headspace gauges work. They test nothing above the belt which is where I suspect the problem lies. And as far as it goes, a gunsmith that would not share a reamer print with me after chambering a barrel for me will never see another thin dime from me. It's not the dies. It's not the headspace gauges. It's not the brass. It's not the reloading process. And it's not the velocity.

My apologies it taken wrong

It sounds like he may have moved the barrel on from the original post, we need to hear back from him.

As the original barrel worked with his brass and dies and no issues while an interesting test I don't see the relevance.

Per your other posts it points to what I believe was well and its a chamber issue.

Some responders were repeatedly asking questions that he had answered.

I agree whole heartedly that the GS is probably not as good as reputed. Otherwise he would want to see the barrel. I call that convenient blindness.

One of our best questions is "what changed". As only one thing changed.......

[gbflyer]

You have an oversized chamber. If you've been rolling your own successfully for 25 years you know what you're doing. Most likely the culprit is an out of spec reamer (possibly brand - new) which could easily slip past even the most competent gunsmith, especially if the work is piled up. Since you had a reputable smith do the work, that would suggest that the setup was done correctly. It isn't rocket science. I would comply with the smith's request to see a sample case and the dies. I am sure that this smith will do his/her best to correct the situation. It's too small a world to let one like that get away.

Good luck, please tell us how it plays out.

[RC20]

what concerns me about the situation is the Smith is not asking for the barrel.

Brass yes, die? with the history he should be measuring his reamer and or taking a cast of the chamber.

I would be reluctant to let him have the die and as noted, not the first time there has been a problem and an objective smith would not only not rule out a reamber issue but be looking at that as first suspect.

[local41]

I talked to the Smith again, he asked me to send barrel and action to him. He said he would get it figured out, he also agreed that brass was stretching excessively. One issue I still have is it will be 900+ dollars into this barrel by the time he gets it fixed. If he has to rechamber it how much does he have to cut off? Will this make it impossible to rechamber again when the throat wears out?
I feel like I paid for a premium product, I don't think I should settle for anything else than what I ordered. Do I have any ground to stand on if I tell him to keep it and refund my money?

[Hotolds442]

If you specified barrel length in your order, and he has to do a setback to make it right, you're no longer getting what you ordered. He's gonna have to take some barrel length off to clean the chamber up, but you won't know how much until it's finished. You'll most likely be able to do another setback later to clean it up. I'd be pissed, and he'd be paying the shipping both ways.

[local41]

I'm definitely pissed, I get the feeling he already thinks I should pay for shipping.
I think I will see how he handles it and let everyone know, good or bad. I am hoping for good, but I am sceptical at this point.