Barrel alignment

[hcaroselli]

Hello - I am having a problem that has been discussed elsewhere so I will not repeat my entire saga. I bought a new Savage Model 10T a while back and installed a new Vortex scope. It has never been right and just yesterday the people at Vortex said the receiver and barrel are not properly aligned and using a 20MOA rail will solve my problem. On the surface I have no problem doing this but I am curious as to why this is happening. Is my rifle defective? It doesn't seem like this is normal.

Real question. Should I expect Savage to replace the barrel, or the entire rifle? Is Savage good about addressing these kinds of issues or should I expect a lot of pushback from them.

Thanks.

[RustyShackle]

I would look at this a little closer. What I'm understanding is that you are running out of vertical adjustment on your scope in attempt to zero?

If the base and rings are mounted properly then something with the barrel/receiver isn't true. I would vote that you send it back to Savage with a letter explaining your issue. I just recently received a replacement for a rifle that had a receiver issue. The new rifle shoots fantastic! If you purchased the rifle in the past year I think that Savage will pick up the dime for shipping, otherwise it will be at your expense. Not sure about this though.

Your other option is to send the rifle out to have the receiver trued. SSS is a good resource for this from what I'm hearing.

It could also be the barrel nut and or recoil lug that is off.

How is the contact on the bolt lugs? Have you looked at this? If your barrel is 'off' when you chamber a round the bolt head can float to compensate for a little of this, but you will not have full contact with receiver and bolt lugs.

[Dennis]

At what distance are you having the problem? And exactly what is the problem your experiencing?

This will help us understand what you are experiencing.

Dennis

[hcaroselli]

Thanks for the speedy responses. Here is my explanation of the problem as sent to Vortex. Vortex called and left a message suggesting the 20 MOA rail and they asked that I call them back. I want to talk to them before doing anything. Then I found an older thread on this forum describing a problem that sounded just like the one I am having and that prompted me to ask about Savage's return/exchange policy. If anyone has more questions feel free to ask away.

I have a Savage 10T .308 rifle and a Vortex PST 6-24 x 50 FFP scope. The rifle and the scope were purchased new about 1½ years ago. The scope was mounted and bore sighted at a local gun shop. I had some issues with the scope and I am sorry to say I am still having the same problem. This is where I tell you am pretty new to the sport of target shooting and I am 70+ years old. However numerous people shot my rifle and they have the same results I do. I should also say that you folks graciously had me return the scope for repair or replacement. I was told by Vortex that the scope was cleaned and adjusted before it was sent back to me. I still had the same issues and I had a local gunsmith examine the rifle. He replaced the action screws and said everything else looked fine. Last week I shot the rifle at my local range and was very excited, for a moment. I could shoot groups that were very consistent, at 100 yards. The problem is my POI is approximately 4 - 6 inches lower than my POA, at 100 yards; I am shooting from a bench. The elevation turret is extended as far as possible; there is no more adjustment left. This is the same issue I had before I returned the scope to you.

For comparison I also have a CZ American .22 rifle with a Vortex Diamondback scope. This scope was mounted and bore sighted at the same shop that did the Savage. I usually shoot this rifle at 50 yards and I can shoot consistently small groups all day long.

At this point I am clueless as to what to do next. The Savage seems to shoot consistently but it is still low and there is no more adjustment on the elevation turret. I will have to double check but I believe the windage turret is at or close to its limit as well. The only thing that has not been examined on the Savage is the rail. It is the rail that was on the rifle when I bought it.

I am not discounting the possibility that there is a problem with my technique but don’t understand the huge discrepancy between the .22 and the .308. If I were to adjust the elevation turret to about midway between its minimum and maximum, I estimate my POI will be over 12 inches lower than my POA at 100 yards.

[Dennis]

The only thing that has not been examined on the Savage is the rail. It is the rail that was on the rifle when I bought it.

The first thing I would make sure is the rail is put on correctly, and not backwards. You could measure it, but you would have to take it off in most cases.

2nd option, try someone else's scope.

I had 2 actions where the windage screws were not drilled correctly, but I have never had or seen a vertical issue with an action or barrel. I almost have to believe something is on backwards. If it is a 20moa rail and installed backwards, that would definitely cause your issue.

JMO, Dennis

[RustyShackle]

http://www.savagearms.com/customerservice/warrantyandrepair/#unitedstates

(413) 568-7001 or (800) 370-0708 for parts and service - Monday-Friday 8AM - 5:30PM EST

Could still be the scope base giving you problems. I would agree that a 20 moa rail should fix your issue, but you will still not receive the full benefit of using it. Or could it be possible that you already have a 20 moa rail that is installed bass ackwards.

[hcaroselli]

Good questions about the scope base. It is the base that was on the rifle when purchased new. I think it is a 0 MOA rail but I should not assume anything.

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

[Robinhood]

What brand of mounts and what brand of rings? Have you looked at the scope tube to see if it was crushed by over tightening the rings? Can you post a quality image of the mounts and rings?

[earl39]

What happens when you bore sight it by eye? Could be bent barrel. Wouldn't be the first to get past QC.

[rockable]

After trying all the above suggestions and two scopes, I sent my 12 BVSS back to Savage. They replaced the barrel and when it came back it was right and shot well first time out of the box.

I have a used 12 in .243 that I had to use Burris Signature rings on to get it dialed in and still have usable scope adjustments. It shoots fine. The problem is barrel to receiver alignment in most cases.

Do not get in a hurry, however. It took 2 months or more.

Did I just get lucky and get 2 like that? They are different generation receivers. It's a fairly common problem, I think.

[SlowTrigger]

I think there is no doubt the higher number MOA rail you put on the gun the better off you'll be, given the explanation above. If you plan to keep the same gun, get a 40-moa rail/base combination - it will help. But that said, you should not have these problems assuming the scope is not the issue. There is either something wrong with the rail or the rifle or both. With a 0-MOA rail at 100 yards, the scope elevation knob should allow for quite a bit of room left to dial up. With a 20-MOA rail, the elevation knob will be closer to the bottom, allowing even more vertical adjustment. The scope should not be anywhere near the top of its elevation range.

Have you contacted the gunsmith that worked on the rifle originally about this issue? Does the rail look like it gets thinner as it gets near the front of the action, or is it even (or thicker)? If it's thicker, it on backwards. If it's flat, it's a 0-MOA. If it's thinner, it's most likely a 20-MOA rail and it is on straight.

Pictures would help.

[hcaroselli]

Thanks for the suggestions. At this point I want to send the rifle to Savage. They are not responding to my email so I will call them today.

[hcaroselli]

I sent the rifle to Savage on Wednesday. It may be a while before it comes back because Savage closes for 2 weeks beginning 4th of July. The rifle hasn't worked since I bought it so the wait will be worth it, if the rifle works.

[rockable]

I sent the rifle to Savage on Wednesday. It may be a while before it comes back because Savage closes for 2 weeks beginning 4th of July. The rifle hasn't worked since I bought it so the wait will be worth it, if the rifle works.

Don't get in a hurry. If mine is any indication, it WILL be right when you do finally get it back......in late August or maybe September. Sigh.

[jonbearman]

I have seen many with adjustment problems from each receiver ring being two different diameters so the Burris signature zee rings with 20 moa inserts would have fixed it most likely.

[hcaroselli]

Hey Everyone,

This week my Savage 10T came back from the factory. According to the paperwork they sent, the barrel was replaced. I re-mounted the scope and bore sighted it and went to the range yesterday. I am happy to report the rifle is now a keeper! It shoots much better after a few minor scope adjustments. The scope may need a little more tweaking but everything seems to be working very well. All I need now is practice, practice, practice.

Finally I believe I will be pleased with this rifle and I am especially pleased with the support from Savage. I was about 2 months past warranty date and they fixed the rifle anyway, at no charge to me. Can't ask for better support than that. Kudos to Savage. :(

Thanks to you folks for the suggestions.