Bench Rest Shooting

[82boy]

Well if it makes things better,a good friend of mine called Jack Neary prior to building a Savage for NBRSA/IBS competition, and he said that Jack had no problem at all with the nut on a Savage and wished him good luck, because he would love to see someone shoot a Savage competitively.

[AVanGorder]

There has been other problems that have plagued the Savage rifle from being used in competition, such as an interpretation of the rules. Does the barrel nut disqualify the gun? I have been told about a shooter that was very competitive with a Savage in competition, at first he had problems with making weight, and when he did he was disqualified do to the barrel nut. The problem is that there is still a prejudice against Savage guns, and some people will stop at nothing.


Now *that* is interesting... I'd be curious exactly how a barrel nut disqualifies a gun in any form of competition. Any details?

My first question is: was the match in question sanctioned by IBS or NBRSA? Or, was it just a local match where the local match director makes up the rules as he/she goes along?

If the match was a sanctioned by one of the two bodies mentioned above then the MD, and the shooter, need to read the rule book. If it was just a local match, well... it's tough to reason with a dictator

[82boy]

I hate to go on and talk about this because it is all third hand information, but my understanding was the shooter was shooting in sanction matches (Not sure if it was NBRSA, IBS or something else) and the director is a well known shooter. I will leave it at that, I don't want to get rumores started.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Could be that the "Big Boys" don't like the idea of getting beat by the little guy?
Funny how some of the rules can get changed to suit the winners. :(

[Terry Balding]

I shot all the VHA IBS matches in Pierre and the Nationals in St. Louis with a Savage.
Never had a problem.

Terry

[82boy]

Talking 100-300 yard benchrest.
In the 600 and 100 yard benchrest Savages compete fairly regular.

[cadet3]

I'm preparing a Stevens 200 for a local short range score match but it will also be NBRSA HV legal as well. This is just in case I want to attend the occasional registered match with it. It will be chambered in 30major, which is a 6.5 grendel necked up to a 30 caliber. Case capacity is between a 30ppc and a 30br. I already have this chamber in a stiller viper action and its shot well the last two matches i competed in. I'll probably let Kevin Rayhill work over the action and install a RB SAV 2. I'm still undecided about the stock right now. I'm looking a shehane st-br or a mcmillan hv stock. If it can shoot a 250 - 18x at 100 then i"ll be more than happy with it.

[Terry Balding]

Nelson, there are three IBS shoots (including a two day) at Mainville each year.

Where is Mainville?

[AVanGorder]

Nelson, there are three IBS shoots (including a two day) at Mainville each year.

Where is Mainville?

Mainville, Pennsylvania holds BR matches.

[frank1947]

what you shoot is how much money do you have to spend you can buy a savage at 1000 to 1400 or custome action from 1150 to 1500 then a barrels another 500 or six then a stock 400 to 600 then a scope so from 3k to 5k thats how you decide what you shoot, how big is your pocket book.

[langenc]

First off you have to remember that that book was written in 1989, even though the book is dated it is one of the best books out there. Back in 1989 there was no Sharp Shooters Supply,(Fred was working on Remington's back then) there was no good triggers, and all the thing we have for Savages today. Even today BR shooters look down on Savages, one they don't know what is available for them, and two they have never tried to build one. The fact is no one has ever one a registered match with a Savage.

My advise is going to sound anti-savage; In short range benchrest a Savage is a great gun to build up, and will hang with the custom action if done right, but when it come to cost you are better off building a custom action gun.



PA is what I would call the birth place of benchrest, I shoot with some of the old timers that use to shoot 1000 yard match's in PA back in the mid 1960's and it is amazing looking at their equipment from back then. Boy things have changed. There are some dang good shooters from over that way. Your FTR would be an OK choice for a long range match, I would not try it in short range.

Why not ask to have a class for Savages ONLY...Shoot what you got. The club should be glad to see you. If not try another club..

[82boy]

I highly doubt any club is going to have a Savage only class. The only way it would happen is if they had a LARGE number of shooters that was shooting Savage rifles. A Factory class, that alows people to bring what they got just makes more sense.

[tiny68]

I know this has been beat on the brush and I am late in the discussion. I a few years back I shot several matches at Denton range in club matches. All 100/200 yard. We shoot score in the morning and group in the afternoons. I had the pleasure of shooting with a few of the top shooters in the country. It is the home range for several that had qualified and shot on the USA Benchrest team at the Worldbench Championship. Most recent this included Dr. Tim Oltersdorf and Ralph Stewart. They all welcomed me and my target action 30BR. I asked questions at every match. I would shoot a few clean targets and then the unexplained flyer always showed up. I got 249 - 17X and 249-15X as my top scores. Never shot clean. This is a range on which half of the shooters in score are clean and if you don't have +15x you aren't in the top ten. I learned a lot. I have since added Fred's Evolution trigger and switched to a 45X Leupold from a T36. I really want to make my Savage shoot clean just once.

I asked questions about every rig I saw. I think the biggest drawback to the Savage design is the lack of a trigger hanger to allow you to glue in a stock. I am fairly convinced that can lead to the occasional flyer. There is a reason all the BR shooters switched to only glue in rigs.

Fred - put a trigger hanger on your Evolution trigger and I'll by one!

Luck, Tim

[82boy]

I asked questions about every rig I saw. I think the biggest drawback to the Savage design is the lack of a trigger hanger to allow you to glue in a stock. I am fairly convinced that can lead to the occasional flyer. There is a reason all the BR shooters switched to only glue in rigs.


Not every BR shooter shoots a Glue in rig. The main reson why BR shooters use glue in , is because it saves on weight, and it is a cheap and easy way to get the job done. (Some may call it cheap and dirty.) The biggest problem with glue in actions, is WHEN they do break loose, you might not know that it happened and it will give you a bad day. Some shooters have done what is called a "glue and screw" set up where they pillar bed the action and then glue it in. Some say it is better, some dont.

A rifle that is PROPERLY beded will shoot on par with any like rifle that is glued in. There is an great artilce in the precision shooting benchrest primer where a questionair was sent out to the top benchrest gunsmith in the USA asking a simple questions, "wich is better glue in or bedded?" Many of these gunsmiths stated that a properly bedded rifle worked just as good if not better than a glue in. From the article Ron Hoehn (Hall of fame member and one of the top BR shooters in the country.) stated " I personally prefer bedded rifles over glue-ins. Not that they shoot any better, but if done properly, they are every bit as good as a glue-in without the drawbacks." Throught my journeys in shooting benchrest I have talked to a lot of people and some swere by glue ins, and many say it dont make a difference.

As far as a savage not being able to compete with that is a load of garbage. If you need proof check out the following links.
http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?18777-Help-my-Congradulate-Fred-Moreo-for-finishing-3rd-place-in-the-NBRSA-Eastern-Finale!!

http://issuu.com/precisionrifleman/docs/547637_mag1of1

Fred Finished 3rd place in Light Varmint 200 yards, and heavy Varmint 100 yards, on one of the most challanging shooting days This was a Sanctioned NBRSA match. Fred also shot small group of the day. All of this was done with a Savage target action pillar bedded in a tom meridith stock, the gun also has aa barrel nut. In this field of shooters was 2 hall of fame members, (Both competing on the USA world Benchrest team.) Several other shooters that are close to bing in the hall of fame, or should be, and a host of others that are some of the top shooters around. I remember Joe Krupa (Hall of fame member, Past NBRSA president.) was just blown away by how this Savage shot, he even made mention to lowel Hottenstine (Legendary Benchrest shooter, and top BR bullet maker.) how he could not believe this gun shot. Lowel, told Joe, it doesn't suprise him one bit, Lowel said that it is basicly like a blue printed Remington, and they shot every bit as good as these new rifles. He further said the only reason why they whent to the custom actions was because at the time it was much cheaper than buying a Remington and having the work done to it, not that they shot any better.

[tiny68]

I totally agree that glue and screw is the best choice. A perfectly bedded rifle could probably match what that of a glued and screwed rifle - I will not argue that. Problem is that most people can't get/afford Tom Meredith to set up their stock for them. I have seen Fred's results. Hats off to him. However, that was one match. I hope Fred can continue his efforts in BR. If he wins a major match, people (BR shooters) will finally have to give the Savage the respect it deserves.

I will continue my BR efforts with my rifle that Fred bedded as time allows. Unfortunately, kiddos are more important to me right now than BR so it is on the back burner.

The collective opinions of those I asked who shoot competitive BR was that the stock/bedding was likely cause of my flyers on my rig. If I didn't believe that the Savage was capable I would have sold it and have a Panda or Viper already. And are some that told me I was wasting my time with a Savage.

I am fairly convinced that the only thing that separates 1st - 10th place in a major BR match is the driver. Newbies get lucky some times, but the same names seem to populate the winners list a whole bunch. These are the guys that can pick up the conditions and adjust for them.

Just my 2 cents, Tim