Is truing the action necessary?

[Kingair001]

You left of Ruger
I believe we are talking about custom actions

Don't think that Ruger is one of them

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[Robinhood]

Oh, I read the title and thought we were talking about truing Savage action. That long range and lone wolf will drag you down so bad roads with all of the custom action talk.

[Kingair001]

Oh, I read the title and thought we were talking about truing Savage action. That long range and lone wolf will drag you down so bad roads with all of the custom action talk.
We where talking about trueing a Savage action and went through all sort of possibilities

Probably people will shoot me . . . 😉

As posted earlier I am in search for the Savage grail.

But going deeper and deeper into it - no one untill right now told me that they shoot tactical / PRS matches using a Savage

All the people I talked too who went that route . . . sold them

Even shooters who invested over 4000 bucks upgrading their Savage

I checked all PRS shooters, PRBlog, surfing the Web for days . . . not one Savage shooter / thread I could find - only people asking the same question just like me : should I invest my money into a Savage rifle or not ?

So something has to be 'wrong'

I even posted a thread here on the SS forum and not one reply . . . .

Now I own a Savage 12 LRP and it is a blast of a rifle out of the box - 0.5 MOA with factory ammo

Not only mine but all Savage perform like this - don't get me wrong !

But I want to shoot competition and don't want to make the same 'wrong' investment as many did before me

Now if I find a sponsor who wants to back me up . . . I am all ears and still prepared to use a Savage !

Maybe I should give Savage Arms a ring and see what they have to offer !

Nothing wrong being a factory sponsored shooter

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[Kingair001]

Now getting back to the Savage building it to get it as close as possible as an custom action build rifle

Using a Savage action :

Savage Precision action 450
Barrel 350
BDM 200
Magazines (3) 225
Truing & timing action & bolted & update ejector 350
Timny trigger 150
Tactical bolt knob 65
Manners stock MCS-T4A 850
Muzzle brake 200
Shipping of parts 300
Gunsmith 1200

So the total build will cost 4,340.00

Using a Custom action :

Action 1300
Barrel 350
BDM 200
Magazines (3) 225
Timny trigger 150
Manners stock MCS-T4A 850
Muzzle brake 200
Shipping of parts 300
Gunsmith 1200

Totaling 4,775.00 - so a difference of 435 bucks

It's just an example since there are cheaper actions and stocks - so there is some money that can be saved

Pretty sure I can't because I need to take everything to a gunsmith . . .

Another option is buying a complete build 'ready' custom rifle

And also do take in account that some gunsmith have a waiting list up to 8 months of waiting before they start building your rifle

[Kingair001]

Am hoping savage gets off there ass and get the stealth rifles in the stores. Supposed to be trued actions. The ashberry is supposed to be to. Will be holding onto my cash to see if the ashberry will be worth the estimated $1700 bucks.
Where did you heard or read it please ?

[Robinhood]

King, great comparison. Everything looks good except for the Savage Gunsmith Costs. 95% of the guys shooting savages did the work themselves. A shouldered barrel excluded.

[Kingair001]

King, great comparison. Everything looks good except for the Savage Gunsmith Costs. 95% of the guys shooting savages did the work themselves. A shouldered barrel excluded.
As I mentioned there are possibilities to save money

But in both situations I am talking about a blank barrel that needs chambering, threading and crowning so that has to be fitted by a gunsmith

Now Savage has the advantage that you can buy pre-fit barrels

Again I don't own a lathe, all the tools or knowledge, glassbed a stock, etc to build a rifle so I need to go to a gunsmith

And when putting this kind of money on the table I rather have it done correctly !

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[bearcatrp]

Where did you heard or read it please ?

Just do a google search of savage stealth. You will see the stories. When I was nagging savage about the 10T in 6.5 creedmoor, they told me about the ashberry coming in the fall. There are a few stories on this.

[LongRange]

ok guys lets clear something up here....NO ONE SAID SAVAGE ACTIONS ARE CRAP!!! WE ARE JUST POINTING OUT THAT THEY HAVE LIMITATIONS!!

the limitations ARE NOT accuracy they are FEED/EJECTION issues THATS IT!! there is NO question they are accurate...
i shot a 591 17X with a savage action in a 1000yd F-class match off a bipod
i shot a 36 outta 40 last year in a long range varmint match with a savage action
i have shot 6" AR500 targets at 1005yds 6 outta 10 90% of the time
ive shot 18"x18" AR500 targets at 1200-1400 & 1600yds with about a 70-80% hit rate at 1600yds with a savage action
ive shot 1845yds with a savage action 2 hits outta 35 rounds fired on an 18"x18" AR500 target..i know nothing to brag about but try shooting that far with snow covered ground at white targets in a 5-10mph wind with a 300wm.

if running F-class,single feed or slow fire matches only id be running a savage but i am getting more into the PRS type matches and is the only reason i bought the surgeon 591...i was talking to LW last night and he said there was a guy had a extractor fail on his 591 in a match...its rare but it happens...and why i carry 2 extra extractors in my range bag.

NOTHING is perfect and everything has limitations.

[Kingair001]

Watching one of the PRS video's there was a shooter who had problems during one of the matches with his extractor.

Unfortunately nothing is fail proof

And no one said that Savage are bad rifles

I still shoot mine in F-Class and love it !



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[bearcatrp]

Found a thread about the ashberry. Knew we talked about it awhile back. Scroll down to the middle.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_3/3485_New_Savage_Precision_Rifle.html
Am pretty happy with my 10T 308 but the 6.5cm not. But for what I paid, can't complain. Can't afford the ones at GAP. But not needed anyways just paper punching on my own time. Good to read folks thoughts on different opinions about rifles. Will be looking at both the stealth and ashberry to see if there version on blueprinting/trued action is allot better to get me to spend the higher bucks both these rifles require. Any of you folks own a RPR can comment on there action? Don't own one so have no clue. Heck, can't even find one to look at.

[LoneWolf]

Great advice from Rich Emmons a PRS PRO (http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1478840-precision-rifle-series-intro-to-competition)

"The first question that many ask is what kind of rifle/caliber/scope (GEAR) do I need. The easiest answer to this is, the best you can afford. It’s no secret the gear is expensive. It took me several years buying sub-par gear and eventually trading up to figure this out. Now, a guy can get a real since of pride of doing it on the cheap, or with a factory rifle, I’ve seen many old Savage 10fp’s take down custom rigs worth 10 times their value. And if that’s all you can afford then it is what it is and eventually you will learn the limitations of yourself or your gear. Now then, if money isn’t an inhibiting factor, then study up a little, but buy the best gear that you can find."

The thing is all gear has limitations. The top guys don't shoot customs just because they're sponsored. Fact is most of them were already shooting that gear on their own dime, but shot it so well the company asked them to represent them. So maybe their first rifle was not built for them, but after they made a name for themselves they got the opportunity. Big Sponsorships are earned and not just given! They run that gear because it has less limitations and it runs more reliably than factory gear. Plain and simple.

Can you compete with a Savage... YES, Can you win with a Savage...YES can you win and place at a high level every single time maybe, but in my mind not likely. Every time I have upgraded to something better, my scores and shooting improved. At one point all I did was swap a barrel from a Savage action to a Shilen my scores went up slightly. Then I swapped that same barrel from the Shilen to the Mausingfield I run now. My scores went up dramatically. Was it suddenly more accurate? nope, but it feeds and cycles as fast as you can run it. I've made this statement a number of times, but let me make it clear.

YOU CAN'T SEND ROUNDS DOWN RANGE TO SCORE POINTS IF YOU CAN'T GET A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!

Plain and simple reason why I grew out of the Savage for this style of competition shooting. When you are on the clock every second you can put towards building a better position to take a better shot is what matters. If you're fiddling with your rifle you're not focused on shooting. Every time you have to break your position, you have to find the target again. This is why you don't see Savage Actions being ran at the top level. They simply do not allow you to do this every time.

Last note for an example in yesterdays match. one stage was 12rds in 120Secs. There were 6 barricade positions 2 shots from each. each position was a stepped barricade that was mirrored creating a pyramid. Off the top positions your target was a small ipsc at 150yds. from the 4 lower positions an 8" circle at 200yds. 10secs per shot, but you also have to cycle the bolt, and change position every 2 shots. and normally this stage would have been more like 100Secs, but this match was designed for newer shooters due to a clinic we ran earlier in the morning.

If you want to shoot well on a stage like this you need an action that cycles reliably 100% of the time. If it continues to catch or have other issues you will lose time and not even have an opportunity to get most of your rounds off. It's not just Savage Actions that have issues, anything that is not fitted together correctly or tuned just right. However, I see lots of guys that shoot well get held up do to actions not being able to cycle reliably. Actions I saw have issues yesterday:

Savage
Factory R700
Sako
Shilen DGR (seriously just get a Savage)
and a few other random brands that I wasn't familiar with.

Actions I did not see fail:
Mausingfield
Surgeon
Defiance
GAP Tempest
Ruger RPR
Basically any of the customs.

This is a match ran from a clean covered firing line. Not even harsh conditions. I have to go with what I see on a monthly basis. When I knew it was my gear holding me back and I wanted to beat these guys knowing I was a better shooter I had to get better gear. If you just want to screw around in these competitions for some fun and hang out with a good group of guys then a Savage is a perfect intro rifle. However, I strongly believe you'll rarely if never see a Savage at the top of a serious Precision Bolt Rifle Competition that is ran with most stages being done in this manner unless perhaps it is a factory class.

This is what I observe on a monthly Basis. Go look at the standings of the recent NorCal match I shoot with James Jeffries, Soloman Manasala, Rich Chronister, and many other names on that list. I see this month in and month out.

Do I hate Savage Rifles.... Nope that's why I'm still here! I just know what the limitations are to the shooter and outgrew the level of performance offered. These are all the things I explained to LR. I'm not leading anybody down a "bad road" etc. I'm explaining my experience to assist someone who is serious about being competitive as I was and saving a few pennies along the way.

[Kingair001]

I think believing and trusting your equipment - from ammo to scope to action to scope rings and magazines - is the most important part !
It needs to be reliable - over and over again - repeatability is what you are looking for
If one 'thing' fails 'often' you wanna get rid of it
In PRS or whatever tactical competition this will cost you too much time and points

Now the Savage Precision action is great for F-Class shooting - finally my Savage 12 LRP got me into it
But even check in F-Class what the top shooters are using
Here again is the Savage rifle a good way to get going - and they can outshoot some $$$$ rifles - but in the long run if you want to make it to the top you need to go for a custom build action

Until now the only problem I has during my F-Class matches was the sear locking due to that my AccuTrigger is at the lowest setting
I just closed my bolt somewhat to fast and to hard - although I take really good care of my equipment
And please do check - this is a common problem with the Accutrigger
Since you have 20 minutes to shoot your 20 rounds - I finally figured out what the problem was and finished in time firing all rounds
But things like this get you really distracted - and you are not as focussed into the game as you supposed to be
There goes the points . . .

Living in SoCal I need to drive at least to Sacramento, Phoenix or Vegas to compete in PRS matches
Besides getting into a match since some matches only allow 80 shooters - there's the registration fee, fuel, hotel, airline ticket, rental car and all the rest - and going this route of competition I don't want that my rifle let's me down during a match
If it is my error ok - but not the equipment
Even with a custom build action it will happen one day - pretty sure of that . . . but not a the same 'failure' rate as a Savage action

[LoneWolf]

Go shoot some local matches. I'm in SoCal as well and have been shooting a number of local matches since Nov 2014. I've got pretty much all my gear issues worked out through trial and error there and talking to the senior guys.

[Kingair001]

Go shoot some local matches. I'm in SoCal as well and have been shooting a number of local matches since Nov 2014. I've got pretty much all my gear issues worked out through trial and error there and talking to the senior guys.
That's my intention

Got at least 7 months of extra training before season 2017 in PRS starts

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[bearcatrp]

I found out the hard way with accu trigger. Set it to the lightest one time. Safety kicked by just bumping it. Had to go one full turn to get it to stop. You said you switched barrel to Mausingfield and your score went up dramatically. Any binding? Had to pass on a class to learn long range shooting this year. Was pissed. Hope to be ready next year. Rifle I wanted got sent in. Didn't want to use the 308 but could have. One of these days I will give it try.Until then, will keep reading threads like this to learn. Thanks guys for your input.

[LoneWolf]

Mausingfield is a very smooth and snappy action. I put a couple of videos up in the At the Range section last week. If you go look for the thread.

[Kingair001]

You said you switched barrel to Mausingfield and your score went up dramatically. Any binding? Thanks guys for your input.
Mausingfield is a custom action
And the most expensive out there
But you can swap bolt heads and barrels like a Savage . . . all at a price . . . but the top of custom build actions on the market

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[bearcatrp]

Wow, $1600 for just the action/bolt. Must be dam good for that price. Didn't read allot, how long from order to delivery? Some food for thought.

[LoneWolf]

Long Rifles Inc usually has them in stock and can send you a barreled action in about 96hrs from order. Or just get the action and use a Small Shank Prefit.