New Criterion barrel break-in with CFE223?

[Texas10]

Any advantage or warning about using CFE223 for my new barrel break-in loads? Other than being a dirty powder, there will be little or no copper build up with CFE. What do you think, good or bad?

Got a new 26" CBI, 8 twist with match camber in 223 for my bolt gun, and will be installing as soon as my Forster gages arrive. Was trying to decide what loads to shoot for barrel break-in. Been using my Hornaday OAL gage to catalog my stock of bullets so I can set to .010 to .020 short of lands, and now trying to decide what powder to use.

Thanks for any opinions or experiences.

[LongRange]

I've done full break in to the T for the full 50 rounds...I've done no break in at all and never see a difference either way...IMHO the full 50 break in is a waste of time money and barrel life.

i shoot 1 and clean for 3 rounds then shoot a 10 shot group and clean and I'm done...I do this just to see if the barrel is going to be a heavy fouler...while I do this I run my charge weights up and chrony the 13 rounds looking for velocities and pressure signs so I have an idea where to start with load development.

[Dennis]

I've done no break in at all and never see a difference either way

I have experienced the above as well.

I clean the barrel before ever shooting it, then I put about 5 rounds down the tube, let it cool, clean, then shot about 20 more. Clean, then I start to dial in my load. I use to clean ever 3rd round, I have not seen any difference either way. It seems the most important thing is to get a few rounds down the tube then work up your load.

After 30 rounds, I clean the barrel about every 75 rounds. So far it works, and I have broken in about 50 barrels.

Dennis

[Ryfulman]

custom barrels are usually hand lapped prior to shipping. So break in isn't required however there might be some rough spots in the throat where the reamer stopped cutting. So cfe shouldn't negatively affect copper dispersion in that area. Just clean it after each shot for the first 5 to make sure there aren't any layers of powder in between the layers of copper and it should be good.
Jmo

[Texas10]

Any other opinions about using Copper Fouling Eliminator (CFE) for initial break-in?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Darkker, you out there in cyberspace? IIRC, you seem to have a pretty good understanding of how CFE works. Any opinions you can offer? Good or bad?

This is my first custom barrel, and I know its a different animal than a factory barrel. Just want to get it right and not screw the pooch from the get-go.

My thanks to all who replied.

[Dennis]

Any other opinions about using Copper Fouling Eliminator (CFE) for initial break-in?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Darkker, you out there in cyberspace? IIRC, you seem to have a pretty good understanding of how CFE works. Any opinions you can offer? Good or bad?

This is my first custom barrel, and I know its a different animal than a factory barrel. Just want to get it right and not screw the pooch from the get-go.

My thanks to all who replied.

Basically, what you see above and in all the responses is about it. Just make sure you clean the bore and chamber area before the first shot. It's hard to mess up after that. The only other thing that can be mentioned, protect your crown while cleaning. When pushing a jag or brush (nylon) through pass the muzzle, some remove the jag/brush and carefully pull the cleaning rod back out.

Dennis

[rbp75503]

Never thought I needed to use CFE223. I take a different approach, learned from a 204 Ruger shooter. I clean the new barrel thoroughly to remove the factory dirt and cutting oils. Once clean, I run a patch soaked with Lock Ease to coat the barrel with colloidal graphite. This seems to penetrate the micro voids in the barrel and bar the copper build-up in the barrel. The graphite also seems to act as a fouler. I then will begin shooting and not clean until after 50 or so rounds.

After normal barrel clean-up I again coat the barrel with Lock Ease. I find that I do not have that dreaded clean cold bore shot next time at the range. These are my experiences and may or may not work for you.

[Dennis]

Lock Ease to coat the barrel with colloidal graphite. This seems to penetrate the micro voids in the barrel and bar the copper build-up in the barrel. The graphite also seems to act as a fouler. I then will begin shooting and not clean until after 50 or so rounds.

I should mention I use the Lock Ease as well. So it might contribute to my statements above. I definitely notice a difference when using the product. NAPA Auto Parts stores usually carries the product, or I believe Gre-Tan rifles also has their own product with Colloidal Graphite in it.

Again, I usually clean the barrel after 75 rounds, sometimes I will go 150 before cleaning. I have noticed (as I have tried this out) as I get close to 200 rounds, I groups start opening up. After cleaning and swabbing with the Graphite, I am back to normal. I only use Wipe-Out when cleaning the barrel.

Dennis

[Dennis]

Lock Ease to coat the barrel with colloidal graphite. This seems to penetrate the micro voids in the barrel and bar the copper build-up in the barrel. The graphite also seems to act as a fouler. I then will begin shooting and not clean until after 50 or so rounds.

I should mention I use the Lock Ease as well. So it might contribute to my statements above. I definitely notice a difference when using the product. NAPA Auto Parts stores usually carries the product, or I believe Gre-Tan rifles also has their own product with Colloidal Graphite in it.

Again, I usually clean the barrel after 75 rounds, sometimes I will go 150 before cleaning. I have noticed (as I have tried this out) as I get close to 200 rounds, my groups start opening up. After cleaning and swabbing with the Graphite, I am back to normal. I only use Wipe-Out when cleaning the barrel.

Dennis

[Texas10]

Interesting tip about Lock Ease, guys. Found several references to this link on the internet; http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/sgycleaning.html

I'll drop by Wally World today and see if i can find the non-aerosol form.

Thanks, guys!

[rbp75503]

Interesting tip about Lock Ease, guys.
I'll drop by Wally World today and see if i can find the non-aerosol form.

Thanks, guys!

If not available at Wally's, Ace Hardware stocks Lock Ease. Make sure to shake the bottle before applying.

[Ryfulman]

I haven't used lock ease however I make my own bore paste using hexagonal boron nitride and cera-tec. Cera-etc is an engine oil additive and hbn I sourced from a distributor. Same deal though. Never have a copper issue but I also coat the bullets.

[darkker]

Any other opinions about using Copper Fouling Eliminator (CFE) for initial break-in?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Darkker, you out there in cyberspace? IIRC, you seem to have a pretty good understanding of how CFE works. Any opinions you can offer? Good or bad?

This is my first custom barrel, and I know its a different animal than a factory barrel. Just want to get it right and not screw the pooch from the get-go.

My thanks to all who replied.


Speak of the Devil, and up I shall jump.

CFE223, or in Non-Canister Grade SMP-842. Been in existence in one formulation or another for well past a decade now, General Dynamic started tweeking an existing line for the Military for their "Green" non-Toxic ammo.
So For those who are keeping score, the French discovered around 1900, that Tin compounds can tie-up copper fouling. They also discovered that too much of a good thing, not a good thing. So fast forwards to the lifetime of us in this post. The powders you know as: Win 748, H414/760/2700, have had those same magical copper cleaning Tin compounds already. CFE223 sought to be more aggressive against copper fouling(gotta clean-up after those bloody barnes bullets in the military ammo) without having the side effects from using too much Tin. Enter a snazzy bismuth compound.

Heavy, but loose powder fouling from GD ball powders; or "Clean" looking fouling that is actually creating hard carbon, because of coatings to make "extreme" powders that aren't designed, nor actually work as advertised, when used in the 223?!!!

I have now burned about 20# of "CFE223", and 18-ish# of honest to goodness SMP-842. Is it magic?!! No, that is Penn & Teller's job. It is a nice powder, with a broad use range though.

Unless you used a bore scope to see what you do/don't have in your bore, the entire notion of "breaking it in" is no different than praying for rain. If it makes you feel better, by all means do it. But don't honestly expect it to be the reason something did, or didn't happen.

Cheers

[Texas10]

Funny you should mention bore scope, Darkker, cause I took a peek down the chamber with my inspection camera before installing into the action. Very surprised by what I saw, but hey, what do I know? Never looked at a new barrel before.

The lands appeared very tall, more than twice their width in height, and were chamfered at what appeared to be about 45 degrees, but only from about half way up the land. I also checked a bunch of bullets with my OAL gage for fit to the lands. Got some awfully scattered readings, so assumed a burr or something in the way.

Ran 50 rounds down the tube a few days later, cleaning every 5, and once home, looked at the throat again. This time looked much more like what I'd expect with lands showing less height than width.

Again checking OAl on same bullets, much different reading, and much more consistent (within .002).

Oh, and yes, the barrel shot very well. Best I got in load workup with 75 BTHP and 8208 was .490 moa but very consistent.

Then I got stupid and decided to try some American Eagle 50 varmint tipped.

5 Shots in a .218 hole at 100 yds. :frusty:

Why am I bothering to load my own?

[darkker]

Then I got stupid and decided to try some American Eagle 50 varmint tipped.

5 Shots in a .218 hole at 100 yds. :frusty:

Why am I bothering to load my own?

It's all about the pleasure! :rolleyes:

Seriously though, glad you got it worked out.
Don't let the groups get you in the dumps, on face value.
The load that Painless groups the best with at 100 yards, are at best, a bloody train-wreck to 1,000.
What does do MOA at 1K, and what I shoot to a mile with, would have everyone laughing at 100 yards.