Which 6.5 Long Action

[yobuck]

Velocity is hands down better with 30 cal Winnie if you go with the larger 30 calibers.
With a 30x378 you could send a 230 berger at better speeds than with a large 7mm with the 195s.
And frankly, if you shoot less than 285/300 gr bullets in the 338s with less than about 2900 fps velocity, you might just as well stick with 30 cal.

[Hotolds442]

Velocity is hands down better with 30 cal Winnie if you go with the larger 30 calibers.

Huh?


With a 30x378 you could send a 230 berger at better speeds than with a large 7mm with the 195s.
And frankly, if you shoot less than 285/300 gr bullets in the 338s with less than about 2900 fps velocity, you might just as well stick with 30 cal.
That's true if you're doing your "style" of hunting, ridge top to ridge top at 1500 yards and more. Here, west of the Cascades, a 300 yard shot is rare so a 338 Federal is plenty, even for elk. I've killed more elk with my 350 Remington Mags than all the other rifles in my safe, and I've never had to pass up a shot due to the limitations of the cartridge - and there are many. Drive to the other side of the Cascades, about 50 miles, and it's a whole different ballgame, but even the lowly 338 Winchester pushing a 250 at 2650 is more than enough to get the job done.
And let's do apples to apples - as far as case capacity goes your 30x378 will not push a 230 faster than a 7x378 with a 195 no matter how you slice it. The 7 wins for the 7-800 rounds you'd get out of a barrel. I'd still choose the 30x378 though just for the added energy, if I needed something that powerful here.

[WinnieTheBoom]

Velocity is hands down better with 30 cal Winnie if you go with the larger 30 calibers.
With a 30x378 you could send a 230 berger at better speeds than with a large 7mm with the 195s.
And frankly, if you shoot less than 285/300 gr bullets in the 338s with less than about 2900 fps velocity, you might just as well stick with 30 cal.

I'm sorry yobuck but that's simply incorrect. A 30-378 will sling 200gr bullets to MAYBE 3,100 fps. A 7mm Allen Magnum (based on a .338 Lapua case) will sling 200 gr bullets over 3,300 fps. The point being that all else being equal, namely case capacity, 7mm velocity will ALWAYS trump .30 cal velocity. This is not opinion, this is fact.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger .30 calibers,' but at least compare apples to apples.

[yobuck]

Huh?


That's true if you're doing your "style" of hunting, ridge top to ridge top at 1500 yards and more. Here, west of the Cascades, a 300 yard shot is rare so a 338 Federal is plenty, even for elk. I've killed more elk with my 350 Remington Mags than all the other rifles in my safe, and I've never had to pass up a shot due to the limitations of the cartridge - and there are many. Drive to the other side of the Cascades, about 50 miles, and it's a whole different ballgame, but even the lowly 338 Winchester pushing a 250 at 2650 is more than enough to get the job done.
And let's do apples to apples - as far as case capacity goes your 30x378 will not push a 230 faster than a 7x378 with a 195 no matter how you slice it. The 7 wins for the 7-800 rounds you'd get out of a barrel. I'd still choose the 30x378 though just for the added energy, if I needed something that powerful here.

One question, have you personaly ever seen, or do you have any friends who have owned, shot or even watched a 7x378 shot?
How about a 6.5x378? What were talking about here is not reality in any practical sence, but really what id refer to as mental masturbation.
The 6.5 and the 7x378 were both tried many many years ago and I can name a few who tried them and name who built the guns.
I can also tell you who refused to build the guns. The names of the good gunsmiths are well known today. Call a few and ask about these type ideas.
Dismal failure is all I can say about both of them. It would be a 6.5 wsm in spades, and as we both know that's a failure also.
You will have pressure before you can obtain the velocity you can get with the 30 caliber with the 7mm using the heavy bullets.
I couldn't match the velocity of my 7x300 wby with my 6.5 wsm comparing 140s to the 162s. because of pressure problems.
Put together a real 30x378 on a custom action and a barrel of 32" or more using 230 gr bullets and then lets talk and compare guns.
Look, that custom 30x378 can send a 200 gr bullet at 3500 fps and you can take that to the bank. Yet a 338 cartridge at 3000 fps with a 300 gr will have passed the 30x378 before they reach 1500 yds and you can take that to the bank also. So why would anybody think a 7mm with a 195 at (maybe) 3250 fps would stand a chance against either of those at that distance?
All that said, if I were forced to keep just one of my hunting guns, it would be one of my 7x300 wbys.

Now as for the type of hunting some of us do in some segments of the state of PA is by choice. Each of us could if we chose, make the same choice. Not everybody including those who live in those areas choose to hunt that way.
I have been residing in Florida for 16 years and frankly I could hunt here without even buying a licence since i'm over 65. Same goes for fishing here, that's free also for residents over 65.
I drive 1200 miles each way and buy non res PA hunting and fishing licenses because that's my choice. Life is all about choices, hunting and how we hunt is but one of them.

[Hotolds442]

Short answer: Yes. With today's powder selection, the 7x378 is more feasible than it was 60 years ago when you were mentally masturbating or whatever you choose to call it. Barrel life is still an issue, accuracy had fallen off after 250 rounds in 2 different kreiger barrels. He's happier now with the 30/378 and isn't looking for an alternative. But it's overkill on this side of the states.

[Dewey7271]

He originally said long range hunting.
That's going to take some practice to be proficient.
Other things. How far on average? Are you recoil shy? Etc.
If it's deer at 4-500 yards and you don't care for recoil, a 260 or 6.5-06 would be fine. A little more zip? Ackley either of them.
The cartridge, within reason, really doesn't matter as long as you can shoot it and use the bullet the hat will best accomplish what you need IMO.
You opened a can of worms asking a bunch of rifle loonies to help.:help:
If the game is larger or extreme distance, then sure, a 7 or 300 is probably a good idea.
Just pick something you're comfortable shooting and can become very familiar with. There are lots of variables involved when you stretch one out.
By the way, when you hop on the slippery slope of building rifles, barrels are consumables.

[WinnieTheBoom]

Look, that custom 30x378 can send a 200 gr bullet at 3500 fps and you can take that to the bank.

Where are you getting these numbers? I'd like to see this 'custom 30-378' shoot that 200gr projectile 3,500 fps. Nosler's maximum published load for their 200gr Accubond is just over 3,000. So what you're saying is that one can reasonably expect to gain about 15% velocity in a custom rifle? I'm sorry but something doesn't sound right.

Furthermore, they're showing their 220gr Accubond traveling just a hair over 2,900 fps... The .338 Lapua 250gr Accubond is shown traveling around the same - just a little over 2,900 fps. So I think it's safe to say that a 230gr bullet out of the 30-378 is hardly sniffing the performance of a 285/300gr .338.

Again, compare similar weight bullets and case capacities if you're going to compare different calibers. There's no arguing that the 30-378 isn't a fantastic round - it is - but to say that it has better velocity over a comparably sized 7mm or that it will match and surpass the performance of a .338 Lapua ballistically is just not true.

Getting slightly off track here.

[bw34]

He originally said long range hunting.
That's going to take some practice to be proficient.
Other things. How far on average? Are you recoil shy? Etc.
If it's deer at 4-500 yards and you don't care for recoil, a 260 or 6.5-06 would be fine. A little more zip? Ackley either of them.
The cartridge, within reason, really doesn't matter as long as you can shoot it and use the bullet the hat will best accomplish what you need IMO.
You opened a can of worms asking a bunch of rifle loonies to help.:help:
If the game is larger or extreme distance, then sure, a 7 or 300 is probably a good idea.
Just pick something you're comfortable shooting and can become very familiar with. There are lots of variables involved when you stretch one out.
By the way, when you hop on the slippery slope of building rifles, barrels are consumables.

Thanks for the reply. Not sure what I started here:). I have 1 bolt action gun a .270 win. I've had it for 20 years and love it. I enjoy being able to put a rifle together that is custom to me. I also like having something different then the guys I hunt/shoot with have. Pretty much everyone has either a .270, 30-06 or .300 min mag. I don't find the .300 fun to shoot so if I went with a cal with more punch I'd look into a brake. I live in Michigan and where I hunt a 150 yard shot is long. we started going out to eastern Montana and the shot possibilities are so much different. This past year I shot a mulie at 423yds with a 130 grain sst. It dropped where it stood. I'm a believer in shoot placement and not shooting farther than I'm capable. The range I shoot @ is 500 meters. I'm looking to set up a 500yd gun. Maybe stretch that a little has I become more comfortable with practice. I do like the fast ones though:)

[yobuck]

Short answer: Yes. With today's powder selection, the 7x378 is more feasible than it was 60 years ago when you were mentally masturbating or whatever you choose to call it. Barrel life is still an issue, accuracy had fallen off after 250 rounds in 2 different kreiger barrels. He's happier now with the 30/378 and isn't looking for an alternative. But it's overkill on this side of the states.

Well you did confirm what I said, and for what its worth, ive always been a follower on these type things.
Its got to be shown to me before I can come to grips with reality just like many others. But the wheel does get reinvented
in every generation.
As for the powders we had, for sure there were fewer of them. But that dosent mean there weren't some good ones,
with many still very popular today. That's especially true for cartridges like 30x378s.
I still have a small supply of ww2 surplus h570 which is a powder most today would have never heard of.
Were finding it offers the best all round performance in my sons 338x378 over all the others
weve tried including rl33. When I mentioned this to Bruce Baer, he asked me if id tried it in my 338 Big Baer.
I said I hadn't, to which he said well you should, that's what I use in mine for hunting.
It is also the most accurate powder in my 7x300 wby although 7828 gives more velocity and decent accuracy.
If you look in an older Sierra loading manual you will find the 7x300 wby listed for just one load. That would be the load
Mary Louise DeVito used to set the first recognised Williamsport group record. It was 87 gr h570 with a 168 smk.
Reality is we weren't lacking for anything we needed for this 50 years ago. We even found ways of ranging things then hitting them
with scopes and equiptment being laughed at today. But bring your Vectrinix, and money, and we'll see who laughs best.

[Dewey7271]

Thanks for the reply. Not sure what I started here:). I have 1 bolt action gun a .270 win. I've had it for 20 years and love it. I enjoy being able to put a rifle together that is custom to me. I also like having something different then the guys I hunt/shoot with have. Pretty much everyone has either a .270, 30-06 or .300 min mag. I don't find the .300 fun to shoot so if I went with a cal with more punch I'd look into a brake. I live in Michigan and where I hunt a 150 yard shot is long. we started going out to eastern Montana and the shot possibilities are so much different. This past year I shot a mulie at 423yds with a 130 grain sst. It dropped where it stood. I'm a believer in shoot placement and not shooting farther than I'm capable. The range I shoot @ is 500 meters. I'm looking to set up a 500yd gun. Maybe stretch that a little has I become more comfortable with practice. I do like the fast ones though:)

Ok. 500 or less.
Huge BCs aren't going to be quite as relevant then.
The 6.5s will have plenty of punch for Bambi at that range. Most of the 6.5s also aren't bad at all on recoil. Your original 2 choices would work well for that, either of them. You want some speed and don't mind wildcats then add the 6.5 WSM. You could build a 6.5-300 Weatherby also if you don't mind belts. A little hard on barrels but it and the 6.5 WSM will zoom them for you.
I mentioned barrels are consumables. Generally the faster it runs the quicker the barrel wears so keep that in mind.
Good luck! This should be fun for you.

[bw34]

Ok. 500 or less.
Huge BCs aren't going to be quite as relevant then.
The 6.5s will have plenty of punch for Bambi at that range. Most of the 6.5s also aren't bad at all on recoil. Your original 2 choices would work well for that, either of them. You want some speed and don't mind wildcats then add the 6.5 WSM. You could build a 6.5-300 Weatherby also if you don't mind belts. A little hard on barrels but it and the 6.5 WSM will zoom them for you.
I mentioned barrels are consumables. Generally the faster it runs the quicker the barrel wears so keep that in mind.
Good luck! This should be fun for you.

Thanks Dewey. I'll check out those 2. I'm aware that I could go though some barrels. If I do it just means I'm having fun

[yobuck]

The 6.5x300 Weatherby was popular with hunters 50 years ago. Today nobody uses them because there are more/better options.
The 6.5 wsm is a hotrod 6.5, but I personaly found it so good I unloaded mine after 320 rounds.
There are at least 2 others here who will offer similar opinions on that cartridge. But hey I'm a lefty, maybe a righty would have different results? lol.
Everything will work well for 500 yds without using a hotrod.
Any one of the factory 6.5s or a 6.5x06 would be a good choice. So would a 270 or a 25x06 and a 308.
If I were younger and could still walk around well, id be building a 280 ai for my every day gun with the exception of varmits.
From there id be going directly to a 338 with 300 gr bullets for the longer distances.

[Hotolds442]

The 6.5x300 Weatherby was popular with hunters 50 years ago. Today nobody uses them because there are more/better options.
The 6.5 wsm is a hotrod 6.5, but I personaly found it so good I unloaded mine after 320 rounds. There are at least 2 others here who
will offer similar opinions on that cartridge. But hey I'm a lefty, maybe a righty would have different results? lol.
Everything will work well for 500 yds without using a hotrod. Any one of the factory 6.5s or a 6.5x06 would be a good choice.
So would a 270 or a 25x06 and a 308. If I were younger and could still walk around well, id be building a 280 ai for my every day gun with the
exception of varmits. For those id be going directly to a 338 with 300 gr bullets.

Fixed it for ya.

You may be onto something there with the lefty/6.5WSM correlation. I'm also a lefty. Maybe I need to sell that 6.5 barrel to a right handed person and see how it works for them.

[yobuck]

Thank you MR Moderator, I always thought you had some resemblings of intelligence, now I know why lol.
Seriously though, about the time I got serious about long range hunting with serious guns, the 6.5 wby was
on its way to being part of history. When their barrels washed out, those having them were replacing the barrel
with a 7mm because of better bullets being available. Its really always been about bullets, then finding the best
suitable case. So I missed out on the 6.5 Wby craze, and frankly always had the feeling I might have missed something.
Even though I had friends telling me I really hadn't. When I started hearing about the 6.5wsm, my interest was aroused
enough to build one. It was a learning experience for a number of reasons none of which were good. Except I did shoot 2
antelope with it that I could have just as easily gotten with my 25/06.
Getting a bullet to a distant target is easier than until recently, most people realize.
Turn the dial on the scope and walla, its there.
Very average shooters have far more ability for hitting distant targets than
most realize given the right equiptment and very little instruction.
Hitting it again, then again, is where problems usually arise for a number of reasons.
But put a novice behind a 6.5 and have them shoot a few rounds at a rock at say 900 yds.
Then hand them a 338 with a 300 gr bullet and have them shoot at the same rock.
The 338 will make them a better shooter, and isn't that what its all about?
Bear in mind however, there is a difference between good hunting accuracy and good benchrest/target accuracy.
Also bear in mind the best tactitions don't always win when hunting.

[Dewey7271]

Don't know how this degenerated into a "bigger is better", need a super duper high bc rifle for an OP that said he's a little recoil sensitive and is going to shoot max 500 yds?
Also, fwiw, the 6.5-300 Wby is so far gone Weatherby announced a while back they're factory clambering it. Geez, who really cares? And my 6.5 WSM shoots just fine, thank you.
I have nothing but respect for all you guys and your abilities but why can't we just answer what the poster asked?
Mod, if this is out of line, delete it.
OP, sorry for the rant.

[yobuck]

Don't know how this degenerated into a "bigger is better", need a super duper high bc rifle for an OP that said he's a little recoil sensitive and is going to shoot max 500 yds?
Also, fwiw, the 6.5-300 Wby is so far gone Weatherby announced a while back they're factory clambering it. Geez, who really cares? And my 6.5 WSM shoots just fine, thank you.
I have nothing but respect for all you guys and your abilities but why can't we just answer what the poster asked?
Mod, if this is out of line, delete it.
OP, sorry for the rant.

No rant as far as I'm concerned, just ideas being shared some of which are backed up by our personal experiences.
I don't think ive bad mouthed any cartridges here at least for the most part. I didn't even say my 6.5 wsm didn't shoot well, (after)
all the issues were ironed out. Just that it wasent up to shooting as well as others I have which is what also killed the early 6.5 wbys.
As for the op's question, I think he got what information he needed a long time back. Hopefully he's enjoyed the rest of what he is
responsible for starting. lol
As for Weatherby reinventing the 6.5 Wby cartridge, its not the first time they've done that.
They also did it with the 30x378 about 30 years after it was invented the first time by a hillbilly farmer/ gunsmith.
What prompted Weatherby to do this wasent the fact that the world has a need. But rather they see the current
popularity of long range shooting and the 6.5 cartridges, with the hope it might help their bottom line.
Whereas 50 years ago what l/r hunters there were, were primarily found in small geographic areas and largly classified
as kooks or worse. Even long range benchrest shooting was and probably still is to some degree sneered at by the purists in that sport.
Its changing because of its popularity and the flow of dollars being spent and no other reason.
The train left the station years ago, but now everybody wants a seat. Can we spell BERGER for example.
Fact is Roy Weatherby was on the train, and were left to wonder what would have been had he lived another 25 years.

[LongRange]

Thanks for the reply. Not sure what I started here:). I have 1 bolt action gun a .270 win. I've had it for 20 years and love it. I enjoy being able to put a rifle together that is custom to me. I also like having something different then the guys I hunt/shoot with have. Pretty much everyone has either a .270, 30-06 or .300 min mag. I don't find the .300 fun to shoot so if I went with a cal with more punch I'd look into a brake. I live in Michigan and where I hunt a 150 yard shot is long. we started going out to eastern Montana and the shot possibilities are so much different. This past year I shot a mulie at 423yds with a 130 grain sst. It dropped where it stood. I'm a believer in shoot placement and not shooting farther than I'm capable. The range I shoot @ is 500 meters. I'm looking to set up a 500yd gun. Maybe stretch that a little has I become more comfortable with practice. I do like the fast ones though:)

you dont need a heavy artillery to do this at 500yds...as you said most of your hunting will be closer so 243 will easily get it done....next would be a 260...a 130g bullet at 2950fps at 500yds is still over 1500ft-lbs of energy and still over 1100ft-lbs at 800yds.
you pretty much said you dont like the recoil of the 300 and a standard 7mag isnt going to be much different. if you do some research on ballistics you will find the 260 with a 140g bullet is almost identical to a 300 win mag until you get into the 200g class bullets in the WM.

Buck loves those big cals but the difference between him and most other ppl is he has shot those heavy cals his entire life(and he has been around for a long time LOL)where as most other ppl have not...something to think about...i shot a 300wm for several yrs and it was a tac driver...several guys i know that are pretty good shots shot that rifle and only 2 could shoot it to its accuracy level but all of them could accurately shoot my 260.

[Hotolds442]

Buck loves those big gals.......
And don't believe his age, either. He only put 66 in there because it wouldn't take all 3 digits.

[yobuck]

And don't believe his age, either. He only put 66 in there because it wouldn't take all 3 digits.

Well I'm getting closer, but not there yet. Hopefully somebody with a good ipod program will remind me. lol
I have questions however regarding guns and what we need or don't need for long range hunting.
I have my jeep rigged for the type hunting we do in the particular location we do it.
There are 3 long range guns, one being a 7x300 wby, a 30 cal wildcat that would be essentially a 300 Norma,
and a large 338. I also carry along a 25/06 or a 30/06 in case somebody (not me) needs to go finish one off.
Admittedly, the 7x300 could be a smaller cartridge but that's what I have. Where we hunt, you might be looking at
400 over there, but over there is 800, and over there could be 12 to 1500 all from the same location. And for those
just dying to ask why, forget spot and stalk because its not even a remote possibility there. Try hitting a gallon milk jug across one of those valleys in December with the wind blowing and you would soon get the picture.
No different than a serious bass fisherman having 6 rods rigged laying ready for different situations.
Or a golfer with a whole bunch of clubs just to hit a ball that's laying right in front of him.
We will shoot as well as the distance and conditions permit us, and if the conditions aren't good
that might not be very far especially with the smaller cartridges.
Our hunting season for rifle is for 2 weeks, and there are no cancelations for unfavorable conditions or being unprepared.
If your in an area like some parts of Wyoming for example, where you can spot an animal at a long
distance, then duck into a dry stream bed maybe 6 ft or more deep to close the distance that's a whole different situation than were faced with.
We shoot from here or we don't shoot at all, and those are the choices.
Pick your club and good luck. And yes they kick lol.

[Burr]

...No different than a serious bass fisherman having 6 rods rigged laying ready for different situations.

Heh, I was not fishing Bass....

Actually I'm testing my ability to learn how to post a picture, so work with me on this one, OK? Let's see if this works.

http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w467/BarryChouinard/Quad/quad%2028_zpsv7noqwps.jpg


Hmmm, that does not look like it will work, how about this.

http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w467/BarryChouinard/Quad/Quad%20and%20rods_zpszjjm4xsm.jpg

Arrgghhh, I think I need to look at my account settings. I'll figure it out.