Bad Headspace Gage?

[dividingfire]

I feel like I'm losing my mind with my 6.5 Creedmoor project. My Apache barrel showed up yesterday (:cool:) and I got all set up to install it:

I took the extractor and ejector out of the bolt and slipped my PTG Go Gage in like I've always done before.
I closed the bolt and spun the barrel in until it hit the gage, tightened down the barrel nut, and then pulled the go gage out and slipped the PTG no-go gage in.
And the bolt closed completely with no resistance. :o

I took everything back apart and wiped the gages off and cleaned the chamber and bolt face and everything I could think of and set it up again. Same result.

So I started experimenting. I put the no-go gage in the chamber and screwed in the barrel until it hit, tightened down the barrel nut, then pulled out the no-go gage and slipped the go gage in. The bolt wouldn't even start to close on the go gage.

I pulled both of the gages and put the calipers on them. The no-go gage is slightly longer than the go gage, just as I would expect. I dropped both gages into the chamber to compare and it is visibly obvious that the no-go gage sits further into the chamber than the go-gage.

I have a spare ER Shaw barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor so I dropped the gages into it's chamber to make sure I wasn't crazy and I got the same result. The no-go gage goes further into the chamber than the go gage.

I have concluded that at least one of my gages is flawed. I've never had a gage problem before. I am curious if anyone else has had this problem before?

[scope eye]

Look closely at the shoulder height and shoulder angle, to see if they are the same, put them side by side and compare.

Dean

[WinnieTheBoom]

And this is why I use Manson Reamers headspace gauges for everything now. PTG is a major PITA to deal with in my experience.

If the gauges are visibly sitting differently in the chamber (especially on two different barrels) then obviously there's something going on. I wouldn't go any further with that project until you can confirm what the problem is. Maybe try using the Go-Gage to set initial headspace, apply 2 pieces of scotch tape to the case head, and then see what the result is? You could also try re-sized cases just to see how they fit in the chamber.

[scooterf79]

Id try the tape thing as well, just as winnie said. Ive never used a no-go gauge on any of my builds. I always use a piece tape on the back of the go gauge. Id try that and then try to chamber a round just to check.
Scooter

[foxx]

The only problem with the tape method, in this case, is you have no idea which gage is wrong. If the bolt closes on the no-go and not on the go-gage, which is right/wrong???? How do you define "right"??? I would return both gages and go with Manson.

[dividingfire]

When I got home from work today I decided just for giggles to try the headspace gages in my Ruger American Predator 6.5 Creedmoor. The results:

The bolt closed completely on the no-go gage.
The bolt would not close on the go gage.

I chucked these gages in the scrap bin and put the project on hold until I can secure a proper set of gages. This is the first issue I've ever had with PTG stuff but it could have been a dangerous mistake. I'm a little bit in awe over it.

[WinnieTheBoom]

When I got home from work today I decided just for giggles to try the headspace gages in my Ruger American Predator 6.5 Creedmoor. The results:

The bolt closed completely on the no-go gage.
The bolt would not close on the go gage.

I chucked these gages in the scrap bin and put the project on hold until I can secure a proper set of gages. This is the first issue I've ever had with PTG stuff but it could have been a dangerous mistake. I'm a little bit in awe over it.

Seriously, PTG has gone down the toilet recently. Everything from their products to their CS has been awful - at least in my experience. I have more than 5 sets of Manson headspace gauges and I've never had a problem with them, their CS is excellent, and for the same price... it's a no-brainer. Sorry to hear, but update with progress once you get it sorted out!

[cowboybart]

And this is why I use Manson Reamers headspace gauges for everything now. PTG is a major PITA to deal with in my experience. .

I'm with ya. In the last 2 years PTG has slipped so far on the Quality chart it makes your head hurt!! I have a box of reamers that need to be sharpened and they are going to Manson.

[BillPa]

The bolt closed completely on the no-go gage.
The bolt would not close on the go gage.



Mebby those gauges were made early on Monday morning or near quitting time on a Friday afternoon. :p From what you're saying they seem to be have been marked in the reverse.

If I were you I'd pull them out of the trash bucket and make two measurements, the gauge heads to their shoulders, preferably something on the shoulder close to .400", a socket, case or ??? kinda like this...

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2iw63x4.jpg

Don't be concerned with their actual lengths. You only need to see if one is .004" shorter or longer than the other. The shortie is most likely the GO, the longie the No Go.

Try that and report back.
Bill

[LongRange]

hate to say it but i agree with you guys about PT&G...my first reamer and gauges went great the second one not so much.

id do what Bill said before tossing them because it sounds to me like they are just marked wrong...i would also try setting the head space with the nogo since it seems to be the go gauge then chamber a piece of new brass and see how it feels then add 1 piece of tape to the shoulder and chamber it and see how it feels.

[clintsrv]

i would also try setting the head space with the nogo since it seems to be the go gauge then chamber a piece of new brass and see how it feels then add 1 piece of tape to the shoulder and chamber it and see how it feels.


I would try this also. It's tough to put a project on hold!

[dfrosch]

When I got home from work today I decided just for giggles to try the headspace gages in my Ruger American Predator 6.5 Creedmoor. The results:

The bolt closed completely on the no-go gage.
The bolt would not close on the go gage.

I chucked these gages in the scrap bin and put the project on hold until I can secure a proper set of gages. This is the first issue I've ever had with PTG stuff but it could have been a dangerous mistake. I'm a little bit in awe over it.

I have had a couple factory rifles that accepted no go gages. They say the headspacing is okay until they accept a field gage. Your no go gage may be good. The only way to know is to check the length at the datum diameter, like BillPa said.

[earl39]

You can also measure the protrusion when you drop the gauge in the chamber. I believe it is .123 or .125 sticking out for go gauge. Not home so can't measure right now

[BillPa]

You can also measure the protrusion when you drop the gauge in the chamber. I believe it is .123 or .125 sticking out for go gauge. Not home so can't measure right now

But he said ...

I decided just for giggles to try the headspace gages in my Ruger American Predator 6.5 Creedmoor. The results:

The bolt closed completely on the no-go .
The bolt would not close on the go.
Two chambers, same gauges, same results. I still think the gauge lengths are correct but are marked in the reverse, the Go marked as the No Go and the No Go as the Go.

Bill

[dividingfire]

EDIT:

In the name of science I dropped the gauges into the barrel to measure protrusion. I can't find my good calipers and the cheap ones I have only measure to 0.01 inches. They both measured at 0.13 inches so it doesn't tell me much. I'll get a better measurements once I find my good calipers.

[Iowa Fox]

Whats actually stamped on the gages and what do they actually measure??

[dividingfire]

Edited my previous post due to my calipers being crummy.

These are the gages:

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad36/dividingfire/Gun%20Parts/20160319_221205.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/dividingfire/media/Gun%20Parts/20160319_221205.jpg.html)

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad36/dividingfire/Gun%20Parts/20160319_221235.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/dividingfire/media/Gun%20Parts/20160319_221235.jpg.html)

[Iowa Fox]

No measurements etched? Measure them for us. Use a 45 acp case deprimed and squared up if thats all you have. I don't think I'm ever going to buy anything from those folks.

[Hotolds442]

SAAMI lists a maximum chamber length of 1.551 from the breech face to the datum line (.400 on the shoulder) and a minimum of 1.541.
Set your calipers to .400 and score the gauges, then do a rough measurement of the gauges from the head to the scribed line.
Post up your findings here.

Forster also makes gauges for the creed....

[Hair_Boxers]

Bummed by this thread. I will be double checking the gages I ordered from PTG when they finally arrive.