MDT mags not compatible with AM BM

[Twinsen]

I have a Savage 10 with Accustock and OEM AM DBM. I bought an MDT AICS pattern magazine. It doesn't work. I reached out to MDT support after being told they offer "100% support and Guaranteed satisfaction".

My email:

I have a Savage 10 in 223 Rem. It is in the Savage Accustock with OEM bottom metal that is made by Accurate Mag. I am attempting to use a tan 223 MDT magazine. I cannot get it to feed from the magazine to the chamber. I do not think it has ever loaded a round correctly.I experience the following malfunctions:
-Cartridge is pushed free of magazine, but tipped nose-up into breech face. This one is the most common. Since the cartridge is free of the magazine, the bolt can be pulled back and then pushed forward again to load the cartridge into the barrel. I have to do this quickly, or else the round will tip nose-down into the breech face.
-Cartridge is pushed slightly forward, bolt slides over top of it.
-Cartridge is pushed midway forward, bolt slips past rim, and crushes cartridge body against the feed ramp.
-Cartridge begins to move forward, but rim lock occurs and follower and rounds are stuck tilted forward and almost straight down.

MDT response:

Hi there,
Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortunately, given the range of issues you seem to be having, I believe the magazine may not be compatible in this particular configuration / format. I find that polymer magazines are a little less forgiving when it comes to feeding (you can always manipulate metal magazines somewhat to get them to feed correctly if you are having issues).
Did you purchase your magazine from MDT? If so, I would be more than happy to refer your issue to our sales dept who can refund your purchase.
I'm sorry I cannot think of another solution to this,
Thank you
Scott Brew
CAD Designer

Edit: MDT offered a refund, I accepted after giving up on testing, and they called me the next day and said they'll help me get my rifle functioning. Them helping me is gonna cost them time and money and I appreciate it because I've got like $1,400 of rifle just sitting here.

[CavReconScout]

What mags have you tried that feed correctly? They offered you a refund what were you hoping to get from them? Just curious.

[DrThunder88]

Weird. My MDT mag (.308) works pretty well in my Axis with CDI bottom metal. I gave Rosco's AICS magazine a try, and it did seem to be less prone to seating too far, which had been my major complaint about the MDT.

[Twinsen]

What mags have you tried that feed correctly? They offered you a refund what were you hoping to get from them? Just curious.

This is the first magazine that I have tried. I was hoping for support. Some sort of mag modification or replacement with a working mag. Not just "we don't do Savage".

[Twinsen]

Weird. My MDT mag (.308) works pretty well in my Axis with CDI bottom metal. I gave Rosco's AICS magazine a try, and it did seem to be less prone to seating too far, which had been my major complaint about the MDT.

It does do that, but I got over it. I just want a mag that works and I'd be willing to use one that is difficult to use.

[Twinsen]

MDT clarified that it's not that they're incompatible with Savage, just OEM Savage DBM from Accurate Mag. It also wasn't compatible with CDI DBM in either of the two 223 Savages I have access to. So they may be compatible with Savage, you just need to keep buying $500+ stocks and DBM until you find one that works with the $50 magazine.

[CavReconScout]

I have 3 of the 223 MDT mags they work 100% with my CDI bottom metal. Are you sure your bottom metal is AICS compatible? Not trying to be a dick, Savage only made a few models that are.

[LoneWolf]

Suggestion If you are brave enough I recut the feed ramp on a M10 with a dremel and polished it up with some rouge and fixed most of these issues. The rest of them require some tuning of the feed lips if using an aluminum mag. Either opening/closing them or in some cases filing them down slightly.

So technically it could be considered incompatible without some modification. However, all these items stated are reasons I moved away from Savage Actions. You can make them work it just takes some effort and some time analyzing the actual problems lie you have.

[Twinsen]

Update: Last night I requested a refund after it was offered. MDT called this morning and says they'll get me up and running. So they do guarantee satisfaction, but one guy over there might have spoken out of turn and I will let everybody know if I think somebody might be taking advantage of others.


Are you sure your bottom metal is AICS compatible? Not trying to be a dick, Savage only made a few models that are.

Yes sir, it is AICS clone BM. With a 308 barrel and a normal 308 AICS it feeds perfectly. But across two Savage 223s with two solutions, I couldn't get function. I tested 3 configurations with no luck.

MDT and I agree that the issue is very likely the way the magazine interfaces with the release lever on the BM. I don't know where the fault lies or if both parts are within spec, but at opposite ends of tolerances which causes the failure. But I know it doesn't work. I don't think raising the front of the magazine would help as it would make the feed angle worse, but I believe raising the rear of the magazine would work. It seemed to in testing previously, but I'm WECSOGing it here.

If an admin could please change the name of the thread to "MDT mags not compatible with AM BM?" it would be more accurate than the title I gave it.

[Hotolds442]

If an admin could please change the name of the thread to "MDT mags not compatible with AM BM?" it would be more accurate than the title I gave it.
Done. FYI: If you edit your first post, and then choose "go advanced" you can change the thread title yourself, it doesn't require a mod.....

[Twinsen]

Suggestion If you are brave enough I recut the feed ramp on a M10 with a dremel and polished it up with some rouge and fixed most of these issues. The rest of them require some tuning of the feed lips if using an aluminum mag. Either opening/closing them or in some cases filing them down slightly.

So technically it could be considered incompatible without some modification. However, all these items stated are reasons I moved away from Savage Actions. You can make them work it just takes some effort and some time analyzing the actual problems lie you have.

I am not brave enough yet, but if I can't get it running I'll have to try.

I'll probably also try messing with the MDT mag.

As for MDT with CDI, there was a 0% chanc of ever getting that to work. That mag in that BM was like a hotdog down a hallway. 3/4" of slop?

[LoneWolf]

As for MDT with CDI, there was a 0% chanc of ever getting that to work. That mag in that BM was like a hotdog down a hallway. 3/4" of slop?


^Could go in so many directions LMAO.

[Twinsen]

MDT sent me an AM mag. If there is only one round in the magazine, it feeds. Otherwise, nope. That is a big step though. I can actually get one round from the magazine to the chamber. It doesn't top feed, but neither does the MDT. So I have to take the mag out and load one round at a time.

Since I have a "working" mag, I can start screwing with the MDT mag. It appears to me that there are two issues. One is that the round doesn't exit the magazine quickly enough. The other is that in order for the round to find the chamber, the rifle must be completely level. I've tried pushing on different parts of the mag to get it higher, lower, angled down, or angled up. It doesn't really matter what I do as long as the rifle is level. There's just so much room in the receiver for that cartridge to go. Could use one of these:

http://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/catalog/DSC06505.JPG

[LoneWolf]

it sounds like all the issues I identified before I modified the feed ramp, then finally sold my Savage Actions and built a custom.

[Twinsen]

I spent maybe 3 minutes with a flat hobbyist file cutting back the front interior of the feed lips on the MDT magazine.

Results:
39/39 when rifle is level.
0/5 when rifle is canted at all.
1/1 when completely upside down.


So there's your fix. I didn't even do a good job of it, I just made it release sooner. I'm going to write MDT and tell them.


it sounds like all the issues I identified before I modified the feed ramp, then finally sold my Savage Actions and built a custom.

I recently dropped $6k on a custom rifle. It's a 6 lug push feed from GAP. I'd say reliability is 98%, making it the most reliable push feed I've ever used. It is insanely accurate and I believe I am not realizing the true accuracy of the rifle. I can pump out 5 or so groups under 0.20" at 100 yards out of 6 tries. Sometimes I pull off a group just north of 1/4 MOA and I'm still real happy about it.

However, I'm going to stick with controlled round feed actions from here on out. I do not have the patience to load up 25 rounds of ammunition, hand weigh each charge, and then feel the rifle eat the cartridge before it finds the chamber. When I'm shooting, I'm happy. Unless I'm fishing some mangled round out of my receiver that took me 5 minutes to load. Then I'm like an ape with a potty mouth.

My load development with this Black Hole Weaponry barrel and 77gr Nosler CCs at AR magazine length has yet to pull off 1 MOA. I'm guessing the bullets don't like the jump to the lands because they don't have that big fat ogive like an SMK. It's shooting these hilarious 1.5-2 inch groups.

[LoneWolf]

My custom action is CRF. I love it! I just pulled it out of the XLR Chassis and dropped it into a McMillan A5. Pick it up today from a bedding job.

The only time rounds screw up during loading is if I try to run it slow.

[Twinsen]

Ooo what action?

[LoneWolf]

Its the M5 or also coined the "Mausinfield" built by American Rifle Company.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/9d4430de016150a84dba768a352929f1.jpg