Varget and pressure signs

[amadjuster]

I am trying out Varget in my .223 Rem Stevens 200 Heavy Barrel Varmint rifle. I had a lot of 60 gr. Sierra bullets lying around so i used them. I loaded 3 rounds each at 23.5, 24.3, 25.1, 25.9, and 26.7. This is from the newest Sierra manual for bolt action .223's. I was using CCI 400 primers. I was trying to find out which load shot the best grouping at 100 yds. and also see where the pressures started. Here is the weird part. I had no pressure problems at any time. The primers all looked the same and the bolt raised the same on the lightest and the heaviest load. The groupings were not helpful due to the winds but I have never had this happen before. I saw that the heaviest load for an AR-15 was 27.1 gr. but the 26.7 is compressed in that the bullet base is on the powder. There just isn't much more room in this little case. I am guessing that Varget is better for heavier bullets and I really like the lack of residue as left by ball powders.

Does Savage have a magic secret that allows their rifles to never show pressure? I think I'll try the Varget in my .308 and see if it does something similar.

[slaroy]

While I would say that there is something "magical" about savage rifles, I can honestly say that in my rifles they show pressure signs when I work up loads close to and above max.

Having loaded for 223, I can say that with some powders, there just isn't enough case capacity to really get into pressures that are too high. A compressed load, sure, but that doesnt mean that there is enough powder to flatten or unseat a primer, crack a case neck, etc.

I load IMR 4895 in my Rem 223, and run a compressed load with no pressure signs. And keep in mind that a max load in a manual might just reflect a maximum case capacity as opposed to maximum pressures.

Keep testing and shoot the load that works the best.

-Scott

[amadjuster]

I agree on the case capacity for this powder. I think that a heavier bullet would probably show some pressure increase but this remins me of the old days when H4831 was considered the "idiots" powder because in a .270 or an '06, you almost drug the shell through the powder and then seated the bullet. No real pressure problems for that powder, either. I'll keep working on a load that groups close. My only negative on Varget is that I am spoiled by metering ball powders and Varget, being extruded, does not meter as consistently as H335. I sure is cleaner, though.

[possum1]

I haven't tried it ......... but one person told me that you can't enough Varget into a .223 case to cause high pressure......... may be heresay I don't know. Varget with a Hornady 53 match really shoot's well in factory stock 223.

[Budweiser360]

With the smaller bullets like that, there is not enough bearing surface on the bullet for a slower powder, like Varget, to get to high enough pressure. I get pressure signs from my 80 and 90VLD's with enough Varget, but I've throated my rifle really long so I can stuff quite a bit of powder in there now. With my 90VLD's in the lands .015" my OAL is 2.695 :)

[lal357]

i've been loading 25 gr of varget under 75 gr hornady match with no signs of pressure seated .01 off lands and just got back from shooting some 69gr smk's seated .01 off lands with 25.0,25.5,26.0 with no pressure signs in my 12lrpv gun and load 45 grs of varget under 168gr heads seated .005 off lands with no problems

[davemuzz]

I've loaded a lot of different powders for the .308. No matter what powders I've tried, I always come back to Varget as it gives the most consistent groupings of all the powders I've shot.

As far as pressure signs, I've not had any. But then, I've never loaded the .308 to above the recommended book loads. And no matter what you do, your not going to get a 150gr. bullet to velocities above 3,000fps. If you do.....your way over the limit.

Dave

[earl39]

And no matter what you do, your not going to get a 150gr. bullet to velocities above 3,000fps. If you do.....your way over the limit.

Dave


Don't tell that to the guys shooting 155's for palma. 3000fps+ is what they look for to get to 1000 yards. it may be over the book load but not even the longrange shooters are trying to blow themselves up with an overpressure load. They all work up to it slowly no matter what powder they use.
Gary

[davemuzz]

Yeah....I think that's why I put that "above book" caveat in there. For hunting purposes, there's no real need to push it to 3K.

Dead is dead at 2700fps, or 2300fps.

Dave

[memilanuk]

Nosler's reloading book used to have a .308 155gr load with 47.+ gr of Varget... even in a Winchester case, thats a 'max' load, probably 3000-3100+fps depending on the rifle.

Not every loading manual is wussified/ written by the legal dept....

[lal357]

thats why i have 4 reloading books and a online perscription to another loads very from book to book for my 223 1 show 26.0 max for 69gr heads another is 26.3 i just start low and work up which should be a rule everyone needs to follow when reloading. i've always load for groups not fps i would rather be able to hit my target than zoom on down range and hit wide of it

[tammons]

One of my tightest shooting loads is a 52 gr amax over 27 gr of varget, cci BR primers.
I get flat primers but thats it, but very accurate, like 1/4-3/8" groups.
I is a hot load though. I back off a tad in summer.

No brass expansion or flow mark at all. No hard bolt lift.

I think that the low pressure signs could be due to Savage longer freebore.

IE when the primer pops the bullet lodges in the lands of the barrel, so the rest of the expansion takes place in that space.

I had never really thought about it that much until I started shooting and loading for 6.8 spc.

The spc I chamber is limited as the load you can shoot. I basically has zero freebore.
The only difference between it and the spc II chamber is the spc II chamber has .01" more freebore, but it makes a huge difference in pressure and the ability to shoot hot loads.

[Clark]

I just went through the effort of verifying that Quickload predictions for Varget in the 1889 Mauser case head with large Boxer primer pocket [standard 243] gives up the primer pocket at ~75 kpsi just like with IMR4895 or H335.

The 1950 .222Rem case head with small Boxer primer pocket [ used in 223 Rem] should then give up the primer pocket at ~86kpsi Quickload predictions with Varget as it does with IMR4895 and H335.

Warning: the .223 is SAAMI registered at a very low 55 kpsi with published loads often much lower still, and hot loads with any shoulder set back when re sizing will cause the brass to grow so fast that only 2 or 3 firings can be made before trimming. With neck sizing, I can get 20 firings between trimming. Shooting brass that is too long for the chamber can pinch the bullet and cause a pressure spike.

[okie2]

i've been loading 25 gr of varget under 75 gr hornady match with no signs of pressure seated .01 off lands and just got back from shooting some 69gr smk's seated .01 off lands with 25.0,25.5,26.0 with no pressure signs in my 12lrpv gun and load 45 grs of varget under 168gr heads seated .005 off lands with no problems

did I read this right you are shooting 168 grain bullets out of a 223 caliber.

[davemuzz]

i've been loading 25 gr of varget under 75 gr hornady match with no signs of pressure seated .01 off lands and just got back from shooting some 69gr smk's seated .01 off lands with 25.0,25.5,26.0 with no pressure signs in my 12lrpv gun and load 45 grs of varget under 168gr heads seated .005 off lands with no problems

did I read this right you are shooting 168 grain bullets out of a 223 caliber.


I think his mind went one way.....and his fingers went another. I'm gonna bet that 45gr. 168gr. is a .308 cal. load. That sounds like a load I use to use all the time. For the .308, varget is just the powder I use to come back to no matter what!!!

Brain Fart.....I'm gonna bet!! :)

[okie2]

I agree
that 168 BULLET in a 223 would be 3 inches long HA HA