Zeroing vortex viper pst and reticle travle

[yobuck]

The same amount. That's not going to change anything. You're still using all of the mechanical adjustability and all of the holdover, you're just using the holdover first instead of last. It won't change a thing as far as overall adjustability. I shot a match a month ago that had targets every 100 yards out to 1000, and had to make 10 shots in 90 seconds. There's no way I'd have been able to dial in between every shot, so I did exactly what you're talking about. Left the scope at zero and used holdovers all the way out. From there, you could still adjust the turrets, but it's not going to change the overall amount of adjustment.

Certainly it wont give more, but it gives the accuracy of dialing rather than just holding over, and thats the only advantage.
And i agree, for a match situation it wouldnt be necessary anyway.



Doc.
I'm going to repeat this.



To get the MOST adjustment out of a scope, you'd want your 100yd zero to be at or towards the bottom of the erector, like my 338 is set up that I mentioned above. Your Weaver is set up similar to my Creed. It's a PST on a 20moa base.

If your glass has 80moa of total adjustment, and you put a 20moa base, that will effectively give you 20 down and 60 up, from theoretical optical zero of the actual glass. With the distance of 100yards, the height over bore, etc, you'll never have that perfect 20/60 ratio, but if you did, 60 moa up equates to a little over 17mils. Sounds like that's about where you are, or a little less, so everything is as it should be. That's all you're gonna get, and that's plenty unless you're planning to shoot ELR distances, in which case you should have gone with a different setup. (The exact reason I chose the Razor and a 60moa base... I can dial out to around 2600 and with a 10mil holdover in the reticle, get to almost 3k... from a 100yd zero).

Try it before you fully buy into this. Im referring to dialing to 2600 yds.

[yobuck]

I have never bottomed out an erector and put the scope on a 20 MOA base but I have moved a scope from a 0 MOA base to a 20 MOA base and the POI was 20 MOA high and then had to dial down to zero. All my scopes are zeroed at 100 as I don't have any of the ELR rigs that are usually set up with the scopes bottomed out.

And just to clarify, when I posted that I was going off his assumption that the scope would be zeroed at 100 with the erector at the bottom of it's travel.

Well your assuming things cant be done which in fact can be.
He wont have an issue zeroing at 100 yds with a 20 minit base and probably wouldnt with a 40 minit either.

[Rob01]

Not if he is at the bottom of the erector he won't. With just a 20 MOA base he will be fine but dialing to the bottom and putting it on the 20 won't work.

[doctnj]

I had to dial up off the bottom when I went through the steps in the manual. However it was night and I had to bore sight in my basement so again that couldn't have been more than 30 ft. I'm goingredients to run back through it again at the range. I'm sure there will be a huge difference in the cross hairs position at 100 yrds vs 30 feet. Hoping it's actually back down a few clicks.

[yobuck]

Not if he is at the bottom of the erector he won't. With just a 20 MOA base he will be fine but dialing to the bottom and putting it on the 20 won't work.

Im going to ask you if your actually saying, that he will not be able to zero his gun at 100 yds if he uses a 20 minit base?
Is that in fact what you are saying?
Forget the bottom of the erector because a 20 minit base might not put him on the bottom.
His thinking on that will change once he actually starts shooting and zeroing the gun.

[Rob01]

Im going to ask you if your actually saying, that he will not be able to zero his gun at 100 yds if he uses a 20 minit base?
Is that in fact what you are saying?
Forget the bottom of the erector because a 20 minit base might not put him on the bottom.
His thinking on that will change once he actually starts shooting and zeroing the gun.

if he is just zeroing as he should and not trying to bottom out then he will have no problems at all using a 20 MOA base with a scope with 80 MOA of internal travel. That has never been an issue. It's the placement of erector is where the run was but it appears he is figuring it out.

[upSLIDEdown]

Try it before you fully buy into this. Im referring to dialing to 2600 yds.

I realize I may not get it all, but I according to my ballistics, it should be somewhere in that neighborhood. I've still gotta find a load that works in the gun first.

[yobuck]

if he is just zeroing as he should and not trying to bottom out then he will have no problems at all using a 20 MOA base with a scope with 80 MOA of internal travel. That has never been an issue. It's the placement of erector is where the run was but it appears he is figuring it out.

He's already found out about bottoming out the scope first. Obviosly there was some confusion there on his part.
All the confusion will go away when he zero's the gun. Chances are he will end up with more than a 20 minit base
if he wants max elevation. In the end, everything comes down to actual shooting. Up till that point its theory and opinion.

[yobuck]

I realize I may not get it all, but I according to my ballistics, it should be somewhere in that neighborhood. I've still gotta find a load that works in the gun first.

Save some space in the case for the parachutes, because at 2500 yds those bullets will be dropping straight down for a long time lol.

[Rob01]

He's already found out about bottoming out the scope first. Obviosly there was some confusion there on his part.
All the confusion will go away when he zero's the gun. Chances are he will end up with more than a 20 minit base
if he wants max elevation. In the end, everything comes down to actual shooting. Up till that point its theory and opinion.

Of course it comes down to actual shooting but having been shooting precision rifles since 1993, competing in national tactical long range matches since 2003 and having been sponsored by USO, NF, S&B and Vortex, I have a little bit of experience with optics and can see when something will work and will not. I may be new to this site but not this sport.

With a scope with 80 MOA of internal elevation there should be no problem with a 20 MOA base and zeroing at 100. A 30 would work too. A 40 though could be an issue if he had to use an extensive amount of windage to zero which would cut down on the elevation travel some.

[yobuck]

Of course it comes down to actual shooting but having been shooting precision rifles since 1993, competing in national tactical long range matches since 2003 and having been sponsored by USO, NF, S&B and Vortex, I have a little bit of experience with optics and can see when something will work and will not. I may be new to this site but not this sport.

With a scope with 80 MOA of internal elevation there should be no problem with a 20 MOA base and zeroing at 100. A 30 would work too. A 40 though could be an issue if he had to use an extensive amount of windage to zero which would cut down on the elevation travel some.

Well i hope for your sake your a better shooter than you are at explaining things.
Fact is if this stuff was as hard as some make it out to be guys like you and me couldnt
do it either could we? This whole thing could have been over within about 4 or 5 post.

[Rob01]

It could have been if the Weaver scope had proper directions and the people at Weaver knew their product and didn't give the OP bad intel on what the product was. It's a simple set up with nothing "new" to industry but new to Weaver obviously.

I explain things just fine but yes I am a better shooter than writer.

[doctnj]

If I dont throw a brick through my computer screen first and I actually get all these pictures up, you will see why I was confused. These are the steps to set up the scope. This starts in right after you remove the turret cap. If I get them out of order the step numbers are at the top. Between my computer and photobucket, Im about to slit my wrists its going so slow!!

After the last pic. It just returns to the process of replacing the turret caps.


http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/20160205_105112.jpghttp://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/a8ba0b6b-e5c8-4a3d-8457-c078a83514c0.jpghttp://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/20160205_105226.jpghttp://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/20160205_105320.jpghttp://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/20160205_105334.jpghttp://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/20160205_105357.jpg

[yobuck]

A little tid bit of information for you that your friends at the scope companies apperently never told you.
Even when using a 40 minit base, the windage isnt an issue if the proper rings are used such as the U S Optics
windage adjustable ones. With those you can have all the elevation and all the windage the scope has.
So Doc could in fact center his windage first if he chose to by using those rings.

[yobuck]

Doc, what it boils down to is they walk around the barn in a different direction to get to the back of the barn,
And their calling that the (smart) way of getting there. You might end up liking that way and if so thats fine.
It will still take the same amount of clicks to hit a target regardless of scope and how you go about getting it setup.
After youve zeroed the gun at 100 yds, count the remaining (usable) clicks from your zero to the bottom.
That will tell you if and how much more of a taper you can use on the base if you choose to do so.

[doctnj]

About to head out to the range to see how that scope works. I have finally gotten to look through it during the daylight and compared it to vortex at the same magnification. It seems much more clear and better contrast. Of course with a larger objective I would expect that. Looking through the bore it looks like it is closed so hopefully there won't be much more adjustment needed. I will post up the results.

[Rob01]

A little tid bit of information for you that your friends at the scope companies apperently never told you.
Even when using a 40 minit base, the windage isnt an issue if the proper rings are used such as the U S Optics
windage adjustable ones. With those you can have all the elevation and all the windage the scope has.
So Doc could in fact center his windage first if he chose to by using those rings.

Yes you can use windage adjustable rings or have the screws in the base redrilled to 8-48 and trued as well to take out any misalignment due to misdrilling at the factory, which is the best way to fix the issue. Doesn't mean everyone will as those USO scope rings are a pain to use and not the best ring. I have used them. So you can stop trying to be a smart ass. I was never trying to do that. All I was trying to do was help him understand what was going on.

Doc those directions are pretty simple. You are bottoming out the erector as they don't want you to hit the zero stop prematurely and think you are bottomed out. This is a very common question on forums for people who have their first zero stop and can't get the rifle zeroed. So it's not a bad thing to have you dump the erector but I can see where someone might think what you did. Then they have you just put the knob back on and zero like any scope. You will be dialing up so make sure you have a large target. I usually put up a large piece of paper at 25 yards and then adjust until I am centered and about 1 mil low with POI before going to 100 yards. It will put you close without wasting ammo. Usualy take 2 shots. First one on paper and then use the reticle like a ruler to tell you how much elevation and windage you need to dial on to get 1 mil low and centered. Dial it on and then take one more shot. If where you want then go to 100 and you will be really close.

Once you get your 100 yard zero you are taking off the knob and loosening the set screws holding the click section/zero stop control to the actual erector, disengaging the clicks and dropping it down to the zero stop and then reengaging the erector with the screws so you have the stop at 0. You still have elevation not used under that but as long as you have enough up elevation after zeroing there night not be a reason to buy a new mount and change to a higher MOA cant. My S&Bs after zeroing on a 20 MOA base had between 14.5 and 15.5 mils of up elevation. Was always more than enough for me for my calibers and the distances I was shooting. If you needed to shoot ELR like Upslide then you might want to get more cant.

A little hint and something you might want to do, a lot of scope companies like Vortex and S&B when they set up their set zero stop scopes they allow .5 or .6 mils below the actual 0 so that if you went to a different location and needed to dial down slightly you can. You can do this as well. When you are in the step where the knob is on and you are zeroing when you get your zero then dial down .5 mils. Then just continue with the rest of the steps. You will end up with the zero stop engaging .5 mils below your actual zero so you have some wiggle room. You still know you are at the bottom of your revolutions when you hit the zero stop but you have the option to dial slightly below. This has helped me in the past when I go to another state and have to check zero before a match and find I am a little high due to temp or elevation and I can just dial down a couple tenths and then just float the knob and go. You don;t have to do this but just figured I would bring it to your attention. Hope it works out well for you.

[doctnj]

Yes Rob I watched the vortex gen 2 vids and saw how they let you set below zero and come back to it.

So I went to the range. I used a poster board for my sight in target so as to have a greater chance of being on paper first shot. I just barely caught the edge of the paper and mil'd it back in. At least for the time being Im going to let my zero stop stay at zero. I will have to fine tune it after my ladder test. Before the big scope change I was in the middle of a ladder test on this 338. Since I was using 1/2" spots as aim point at 300 yrds the cross hairs covered the target. That is one thing the vortex had going for it and now this weaver is the same. They have an open center. I still believe that weaver techs need some hands on time with this scope! If they put a better reticle in it, it would be the bomb. Its quite a lot of scope for the money. So I got it set up finally. I may have to actually drop it down a click but I was shooting slow ammo today that historically has a pretty large SD. After I finally get my load work up completed, Ill get more concerned with having the zero as perfect as possible. right now its sub moa from poa but so could be the ammo.

Im switching out the trigger as soon as my SSS trigger ever gets here. It seems like its been a month since I ordered it! It has seriously been at least 3 weeks. The accu trigger that is on there is fairly stiff which makes shanking a shot a little easier.

I had just finished a 20 dot, dot drill with my custom 260 and had 12 out of 20 either touching or inside the dot so I felt pretty good about my form.

So my impression on this scope..... VERY NICE!!
Turrets - 10 audible, and tactile
Glass - Bright, Decent contrast (better than vortex pst)
Construction - built like a tank
Illumination - 5 green 5 red ( crisp with very little bleed out)
position of illumination dial (on outside of parallax) pro - gets it out of the way of working bolt if left handed
cons- access to parallax is difficult, found myself accidentally turning on illum.
must turn back to 0 to turn off easy to leave on.
Set up - Probably not near as confusing as I made it with the help of weavers misinformed techs.
Reticle - Adequate, This is the weakest part of the scope. For fast target acquisition plain enhanced mil dot does not do the job as well.

But again for the money I would STRONGLY recommend this scope.

[Rob01]

Good deal. Glad you got it zeroed and it worked out. Next time out if you could take a pic through the scope so we can see the reticle in real life? Is it the one below? That's a decent working reticle. Similar to the Premier Gen II. I have grown to really like the small open center. Larger ones can cause precision aiming problems but the smaller ones are nice in allowing the precise aiming on small targets. I really like the 2C vortex reticle and have 3 scopes with them in it now.


http://www.weaveroptics.com/images/reticles/lg/IMDR.png

[doctnj]

Yes that is the exact reticle. Is way better in real life. I managed to mil in pretty well but it was 100 yrds. That close is cake. When you have to start adding and subtracting portions of dots at distance is a pia with out a section of smaller sub tensions