223 reloading help

[vancev]

ive been reloading for a couple of years now and today ran into a issue with my savage 11 rifle in 223 i have some hornady 52gr bthp that my bolt wont close on and are loaded to spec by the manual 2.230 so i pull out my trusty hornady oal measuring kit and pull the length and it tells me my chamber for this bullet is 2.190 at the lands which is well under spec but all my other bullets are fine just the 52 gr i measured with 40 or so different bullets checked diameter hell i even checked the head space on my rifle in general however im having a hard time understanding why the 52 gr comes up so much short of spec and i have alot of room to push out my other bullets to get to the lands

[eddiesindian]

your reload wont chamber. I don't think its the pill.
If you have a resized unload case from that batch that you've prep,d for the 52,s, see if it chambers

[vancev]

i tried that as well according to my horandy over all length gauge the listed oal is to long for my chamber and i really dont understand how when the 68 gr bthp the listed oal is the same and they chamber fine.. but the 52 gr measures out 2.190 with the hornady oal gauge im having a issue understanding why is so much shorter than the length listed in the manual the hornady modified case is within spec it chambers the bolt closes i checked everything i think my lack of years in this subject has come back to bite me

[foxx]

Just so we are all following each other...

OAL has nothing to do with the ability of the cartridge to chamber. OAL is the length of the cartridge, from tip of bullet to back of case. It's only used to make sure the Cartridge will fit in a magazine.

If you measure from the ogive you will have a better idea of how deep the bullet must be seated into the case without jamming the lands.

I suggest you start by
1. resizing a case, and try chambering the empty case. If it doesn't chamber, get new brass.
2. seat a bullet the same depth (measured from the ogive) as the cartridges you loaded but would not chamber.
3. If it won't chamber, seat it deeper until it does.

CLERIFY #3: see if it chambers without driving the bullet deeper into the case. Measure, from the ogive, before and after chambering. Also, try this with "loose" neck tension so the neck barely holds the bullet in place. If you are into the lands, the bullet will likely stick in the rifling when removing the case/bullet combo. It should stay with the case when removing, but not get pushed deeper into the case, either.

[Texas10]

your reload wont chamber. I don't think its the pill.
If you have a resized unload case from that batch that you've prep,d for the 52,s, see if it chambers

^^^^+1

Your bolt has enough leverage to drive the bullet in deeper, so failure to close is probably a brass issue. Check your brass with your LNL headspace gage. Your brass should measure about 1.454 =- .001. You can chamber a once fired (in your gun) brass and see if the bolt closes.

I shoot a lot of the Hornaday BTHP 52 gr and my records show a seated length of 1.920 ogive, the same as my Sierra 69 gr BTHP.

The Hornaday load was tested in a Rem 700 with a 12 twist. Your gun likely is different in the throat (leade) than the tested gun. You have to load to your needs, not the book. Use it as a reference only.

[Texas10]

Sorry Fox, was typing same time you were. Good advice.

[vancev]

ok im with yall and i should clarify the length mentioned is the ogive the brass is in spec the bullet was just to long i could see the ring from the lands on it however now that its been pointed out that the book is not the know all be all i can easily modify the load i took the same piece of brass reseated the same bullet -.10 and it cycles fine this was just new to me as ive never had a book fail me the old timer who taught me told me to never stray from the book so i was hesitant

[foxx]

Yep. The old timer was right, except for OAL. :)

I don't even know why they publish the oal. I ignore it.

[Texas10]

Adding to what Foxx suggests, I always start a new load/bullet development by taking a properly sized brass and seating the bullet to what my LNL gage says just touches the lands. I chamber this dummy round and verify touch. Once I have this set up, I mark the brass with bullet, gun, date info and keep it as a "standard" in a special loading block assigned to that gun. As the throat erodes over time, this dimension will of course increase.

That way when I want to load that particular bullet again, I set the "standard" in the press and adjust the seating die to just touch the bullet. Makes the set up go much quicker.

And this is just a suggestion that will help others to help you in your quest. Please use periods and capital letters in your writing. Would make reading and understanding your sentences much easier.:p

[vancev]

I do apologize for my lack of grammar how ever to single someone out over a lack of education seems a bit rash so with that have a good day

[foxx]

I do apologize for my lack of grammar how ever to single someone out over a lack of education seems a bit rash so with that have a good day

Come on, Vance. Tex was right. I really could not understand what you were writing. Not trying to be the grammar police or anything. I know Tex better than that. We are all friends here. Well, there's a couple a holes, but we get used to them and try not to get worked up about 'em. :) THat was a joke.

[vancev]

i understand he is correct ill try and better educate myself before posting again thank you all for the help

[foxx]

Post all you want. We are glad to have you in "the brotherhood" and interested in your stories, experience, opinions, questions and help for others.

[Texas10]

I apologize Vance if I offended you, that was not my intention. I assumed that your typing style was the product of the texting era where punctuation is not used. I short cut it too when texting. I was not making a comment about your education.

Reloading is fairly technical, so for me, I try to be as concise as I can so that I don't waste others time trying to figure out what I am trying to ask. But that's me.

Just trying to help you out, that's all.

Again, I apologize if I have offended you.

[thatguyshm]

Sometimes it can be good to look at the book, sometimes not. Once you get a bit more experience loading, you'll get the little nuisances. You'll notice that most people loading ammo they intended to shoot over distance is well beyond the SAAMI published data.

That being said, the book specs are what you should follow, and they are max specs, until you get a bit more experience. If you look in a manual, you'll notice that the lighter weight pills are often under the book defined max COAL. But nothing will ever be over it.

This "old timer" taught you well if you didn't just start pounding on the bolt to make it close. You recognized the was an issue and stopped loading until you had it solved. You'll catch on quick.

I was just loading some 60gr v-max for my 223, got it to 2.260 COAL, since it was the first time loading out for this rifle. Usually I load out to my magazine, but since it was the first time for this combo, I made a dummy round and tested. I quickly found out why Hornady stopped making this bullet. I was over 45 thous under max COAL until I was out of the lands.

Always check with your rifle. You'll do fine, and welcome.

SHM