6.5 CM and 338 LM range report (to be continued)

[darkker]

Yobucks post above pretty much mirrors my thoughts.
I don't clean brass often at all. With my only sentimental rifle, Painless(10fp .308) I actually had a count going for rounds shot, and times reloaded on the brass. But it got to the point that it was a distraction from shooting and having fun. A pile of that 308 brass is over 40 reloads, a pile of my Creedmoor is over 20. Then some fail FAR short of that, other than a mental note to track the obscenely short lived; I don't loose much sleep over it either way.

Yo,
To your question about how someone should work a load, and know when to stop. It's like I said in my posts(a bit long winded), watch the velocities. Those are the best indicator(short of actually measuring) of what pressure you are running. If someone knows they are over-loading, but chooses to continue I'm OK with that.

Much like doctnj wrote: "Hey what load are you using". Those are the people who have no clue what they are doing, honestly don't seem interested in learning but follow the pack. They push(just as an example) the Creedmoor 200 fps faster than ANY data, then proceed to whine that brand X brass is crap because the primer pockets got loose after 5 loads.

Everything in life has trade-offs, Just need to understand the choices and live with the outcomes.

[doctnj]

Well I already have 150 creedmoor brass sized trimmed, primed and ready to load but for this test sake I want to use the exact same ones so that I can trace back all the steps that happened to THEM to get to the point of the test that way I know that the results came about by x,y,z. Same with the 338.

I would hope at 400 yrds you would say its ok to at least be shooting at a 1" square for target? With that particular scope I wont be able to see anything smaller.

[LongRange]

if your referring to a ladder test i draw a thick line vertically across the target about a 1/4 of the way up from the bottom...use a 2'wx4't piece of plywood with white paper and use colored markers to paint the bullets...your not shooting groups...you load 5 or so at the lowest charge and get on target let the barrel cool and then shoot 1 round from the lowest charge weight up to the highest charge weight using the same point of aim...so your shots are going to climb as you shoot..do not adjust the scope...the only thing you are looking for is a water line(vertical grouping)nothing else...like this....

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1450900017.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1450900017.jpg.html)

3-4 and 5 are the charge weights with 3 most likely being the best you then play with seating depth neck tension primers and possible a different powder...keep in mind if theres wind or your not a pretty good trigger man the test will not be accurate....ladders IMHO are for bench rest guys and F-class shooters that have rebarreled and are using the same components not so much for a guy new to reloading but give it a try and post the results.

[yobuck]

i do the same thing in regards to the primer pockets except the pushing with a punch part...i seat all my primers by hand and if they just slide in with no resistance i tap the head on my bench and if it starts to back out i toss it if the primer holds i mark the case shoot it and toss it after that firing.

I used to go for the 1 more time approach also. I also know guys who smear some super glue around the primer.
But none of our large capacity guns are on Savage actions. Therefore a scarred bolt face isnt an easy fix.
Brass is expendable, and simply adds to the cost of using those type cartridges when using max loads.
As for the 338 cartridges, they should be considered hunting cartridges and not target cartridges.
You will not find serious long range target shooters using any 338s. I personaly would be very happy with a half minit
of angle group with a 338 Lapua or any large capacity case. I would also be shooting 3 shot groups and not 5 with any of the large capacity cases.
Whats to prove by it anyway unless your competing.
I have friends who are now mostly ex long range target shooters. Ive picked up some good tips from them which would be helpful if i remember
to use them. One is to use various colored sharpies to color the primer for the amount of times the case has been fired. That way you know at a glance
what ammo your looking at.

[doctnj]

Oh good yes the standard ladder tes as its called. Its been re-thought and yet another technique worked up by a fellow named Newberry or something like that where targets were arranged across top and bottom of a single sheet and each string consisted of rounds from the minimal charge to the maximum charge were the rounds to be included in that stream. After learning the basic ladder test you talk about , then the neberry method I was just about ready to go to the range. Then these demi gods on another site called their technique "Newberry Like" I could make real identification with this one. All with the idea in mind of removing most of the influences of the shooter and many and or all current atmospheric conditions by shooting everything at 100 yrds no matter what the caliber.

Then the 65 guys stepped in with yet another way of changing the test and making it something you can hardly recognized from the earlier simple ladder test. They said that Newberries idea was to try and minimize in put from the shooter that could affect the outcome. They suggest firing all similar charge loads at a single point of aim with a new target for each charge load. to minimize re building position between each shot.

Personally I can see good parts in all of it. I am currently in the process of brass prep and re loading. The wow and why of the test will be decided later. Although right or wrong I am leaning toward the method I have already done so that I can better see a difference and judge apples to apples.

flame away.

[LongRange]

When i was looking for loads in my 300wm i would load 3 rounds from a little above book minimums and work up from there in .5g increments loading 3 rounds of each weight and then shoot 3 shot groups at 300yds...when i got a tight 3 shot group id load 20 rounds at different seating depths and then shoot 5 shot groups at 300yds and take the tightest group and load 10 rounds at .3g under and .3g over and shoot 2 5 shot groups...this worked very well for me.

Theres several ways to find loads and IMHO theres no right or wrong way its what works for you...the biggest thing is knowing how read whats happening on your target after youve shot your test.

[doctnj]

Wow well I got the magneto speed in yesterday. Wasnt expecting it till Sat and the entire weekend is rain. So I think for the time being I have the wife talked into letting me slip out on Christmas day and shoot a test to try it out. Ive read the manual that comes with it and watched several videos. Im sure there are some things that I should know. I did watch a video about not selecting the proper setting and not recording shots. Any thing specific to 6.5 or 338 that anyone has come across as lessons learned would be great otherwise I will go with basic set up and see what happens.

Thanks in advance.

[doctnj]

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/Mobile%20Uploads/20151206_130056.jpghttp://s1075.photobucket.com/user/doctnj/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151206_130056.jpg.html?o=17Testing putting a picture in my post. Will see if it works. If you look closely at the chrony you will see what I saw a lot of.

[LongRange]

did you get the V model or the sporter?

the first round over my sporter didnt read so i adjusted the sensitivity to high 1 and it works great...if you have a tapered barrel make sure the bayonet is level with the muzzle or you might get errors...if you got one of the V models i think it comes with tapered blocks and a little 1/4"x1/4" piece of aluminum that you use to make sure its inline with the bore...youll like the magneto speed.

[hafejd30]

Make sure your bullet is about 6" above the sensors. From memory Err 1 means the bullet didn't travel over the first sensor. Needs to be straight in line with sensors/bore. Simply shooting through it will not work. I've thought about using a bore sighter in the rifle then holding a sheet of paper behind the sensors and lining them up. (Laser dot on paper directly over each sensor and correct height). Although I've yet to try this

Looking at pic the front of chrono appears to be slightly left of center

[doctnj]

I got the whole kit. It looks pretty straight forward.

Their's no way I'll have time to shoot both tomorrow but even one will be fun!

[doctnj]

Tried the MS on my 338 and it just barely fits. It has an enormous brake. Any one with the 110 ba 338 will know what I mean. The edge furthest away from the muzzle slopes down a little so its not quite parallel. If I pull it back and up to try and make it prallel then the front bottom edge of the break touches the metal guard at the front of the blast area. I think I have a combination of spacer and rubber to make it work ok with just a slight slope away from bullet path. We will see tomorrow. Its a big bullet, should be easily measured. Im more interested in how well it stays where I put it after each shot. I really dont have an idea about how tight is too tight when screwing down the thumb screw.

[LongRange]

i have the sporter model and my bartlein barrel is tapered so the bayonet was higher at the very end so i took some gorilla tape and folded it in half sticky side to sticky side and then cut that piece in half and placed a piece between the barrel and the rubber mounting pad nearest the muzzle and that leveled it out.
as far as how tight...turn the thumb screw out(loosen)as far as it will go without coming off...strap the bayonet on as tight as you can and then tighten the thumb screw until you feel some resistance...then try to twist the bayonet...if it spins on the barrel tighten a little more...i really doubt you could OVER tighten the thumb screw because the rubber mounting block and the nylon strap are going to compress and stretch...if its not reading shots adjust the sensitivity up to the next setting...if its throwing errors(which i doubt it will)the error code will be listed in the instructions and youll know how to correct for it.

as long as its level with the bore and about a 1/4" below your good and should have no issues...on my shilen barrel the bayonet is about 3/8" below the bore and works just fine.

[doctnj]

Ill bring some spacer material with me when I go to try and get it a bit more parallel. With out spacing I would say at worst it may be 1/8 inch difference front to back and at best, nearly perfect but again when its perfect its touching the very front bottom edge of the break. Santa brought me a vortex range finder so I can now verify the target distances instead of just mil dot estimations. Thanks for the help and merry Christmas.

[LongRange]

post up your results when you get a chance im curious to hear how it goes and how you like the magneto speed.

[doctnj]

Well it was a short trip. Only went through half the rounds. I started my load work up at 90.9 up to 92.2 with all of them .020 off lands. So I thought the pressure would be less. Apparently not. I actually started having sticky bolt from the beginning. So I guess MY load is going to be below 90.9 or I'm going to have to loosen my neck tension by .001. I'm going with below 90.9 first.

Now as far as the magneto speed went... there was a bit of a learning curve on getting it adjusted just right. A few errors but once I got it right it worked every time. Even between all three strings that I managed to shoot the SD was around 7.5. Pretty good.

Between last trip and this I had slid the scope back so I had to bring a couple generic rounds and Re zero. When I took it out to 300 I didn't see I was actually in the bulseye so I started jacking with the scope I finally drove down there. It was really all over the place but still 1 moa. Not happy just gonna write this off and take what I learned and go from there.

[LongRange]

what were your speeds?

[doctnj]

Average was 2825 for all three strings. 75 fps faster than smk published velocity.

I had to pop the bolt open with the palm of my hand.

[doctnj]

I forgot to mention that I switched to cci magnum primers. 250's Could be the higher better burn caused the up tick in pressure.

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/Mobile%20Uploads/20151225_112953.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/doctnj/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151225_112953.jpg.html)

Above is the Magneto speed before I shimmed the rear. Was getting errors.

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/Mobile%20Uploads/20151225_113217_1.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/doctnj/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151225_113217_1.jpg.html)

After being shimmed.

[LongRange]

looks good now...i think you should back the charge down to about 87-88g and work back up from there in .5g increments...2825 seems pretty fast for a 300g bullet....you also might want to try some retumbo if you can find some.