Bushing/ neck tension question

[doctnj]

When selecting bushing for lets say .338 lm, I used two methods. The first was to measure a loaded neck and subtract .002. And the second was to actually measure the thickness of the lapua case double it and add it to the diameter of the bullet then subtract .002. Since I didnt know how much tension was on the pre loaded case I opted for the second method.

So I ran all the cases through the size the second method told me to use. I was seating bullets and a strange thing happened. I went to measure one to verify the length and it kept changing on me. It kept getting shorter!!! So I took it out of the caliper and pushed on the bullet and almost lost the bullet into the case entirely. So I went with finger pressure on the rest and they seemed ok, pretty well held in there. Just cant figure out why this one was so loose. I put it in the rifle and fired the primer, resized it, re trimmed it and put it back in the mix. We will see how it behaves when I get to it again.

Now I see where many people remove the internal expander ball because it pushes the neck back out after you have already put proper neck tension on the case with the selected bushing. You would think redding engineers would catch this one. Unless that is why they put that extra pin holder in the die set. Now saying that I think its important to note that I measured several necks and they ALL measured exactly the # on my bushing. May have to decrease the bushing size by .001.

Here is my questions, (finally) lol. Do you, would you , remove the internal expander ball? And for cases that maybe get dropped or are just out of round. Do you run them twice? Once with the expander ball to round them up, then with out so to gain proper tension?

[hafejd30]

I can't really answer your question but how many firings without annealing? I run lapua in my 338 lm with .365 bushing in Redding die. I anneal every time tho. It's possible some brass is just "springing back"

[doctnj]

Some are one, some are two. At least I am guessing two because I sent a batch off to be reloaded before I was set up to do it and I kind of doubt that it was done then. I have an annealing machine on the way so that wont be an issue going forward.

[LongRange]

measure the loaded neck and subtract how much neck tension you want +.001 for spring back and order that bushing plus 1 size over and 1 size under so you can adjust the tension if needed...so for a .293 neck(for sake of numbers)youd order a .294 .293 and a .292.
the expander is your choice but if theres inconsistencies in the necks the bushing push them to the inside of the neck...the expander will push most of them(if not all)back to the outside of the neck.

fixed the numbers.

[doctnj]

yeah thats funny you say that LR

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w435/doctnj/Mobile%20Uploads/20151127_104850.jpg?1448643123494&1448643129318&1448643175160

Must have been reading your mind.

[LongRange]

i did the same thing when i use to use bushing dies...if you take a few #8 shot gun BBs buy a small tube of lock graphite and put it all in a small container mix it up good you can dip your necks in it and it makes things a little smoother....i think redding has a little kit you can buy too.

[doctnj]

will try that.

[mudpig]

I use a .366 bushing with my 338LM which puts about .002 neck tension on my bullets, but then I slightly neck turn all my brass to a uniform thickness and the expander just barely touches on the way out.

[Tom Thomson]

Doc
To answer your question, I no longer use the expander ball but neck size only (Redding "S") and did I ever catch blue hell on this forum for saying so. My original reason for tossing the expander was to eliminate excessive working of the brass but whatever it works for me.
Savage 110-308 - 1/2 MOA
tommyt

[doctnj]

well pig if you look back at my picture one of the bags say "switch to" on it. That would be the .366. Could be from lack of annealing and a bit more spring back. Could also be slightly large busing. Im going to do both the next time around; anneal, and drop to .366 from .367! I want to see what effects this will have on velocity.

[WinnieTheBoom]

I was getting a consistent neck diameter of .367 on my loaded cases with 300gr SMKs. Used the minus .002" rule to order a bushing but ordered the ones below and one above just in case. I was having very similar consistency issues with neck tension both with the expander ball installed and without it. None of the bushings really inspired any confidence and I definitely wasn't getting great accuracy out of them.

Long story short I ditched the Redding bushing die and started using the $30 RCBS FL sizing die. My accuracy literally when from 1"+ @ 100 yards to under .5" once I had the neck tension sorted out. YMMV, but the Redding die sits in the case now. I still use the 'Type S' seating die (love that thing), but I won't be going back to the bushing style sizing dies anytime soon.

[GaCop]

It's cheap for sure but, I get good accuracy using the Lee collet sizing die.

[LongRange]

It's cheap for sure but, I get good accuracy using the Lee collet sizing die.

the lee collet die is a fantastic neck die...i would choose it over ANY bushing die....like you say cheap and also easy to adjust neck tension by honing down mandrels and marking the size on them...great set up for sure.

[WinnieTheBoom]

It's good to know I'm not the only one that doesn't prefer the bushing dies. All I heard before I purchased the Type S Competition set from Redding was 'how much better bushing dies were for accuracy,' blah blah. Turns out, the cheapy collet sizing dies that you can get from RCBS/Lee are preferred to most anyone that has experience with them.

[LongRange]

i think bushing dies are ok for a real tight neck chamber and turned necks but for a standard chamber and the average reloader that dont turn necks the bushings can cause issues after a few reloadings.

[upSLIDEdown]

I've always full lengthed my Creedmoor, bumping the shoulder a couple thou, and had great results. I just don't see a need to neck size, currently. The gun shoots 1/4 minute if I do my part, so I'm good. lol

[doctnj]

Well since I have them Im going to use them. I have now reloaded a few hundred rounds and only had that one loose bullet issue. I have smaller bushings for that caliber so my plan is to shoot what I have loaded. Anneal, move down one size and load again. I did have an old set of lee collet dies that I reloaded 300 hh mags and could tell a big difference in neck tightness with those for sure.

[GaCop]

On a side note with RCBS sizing dies. Has anyone noticed necks being too tight when seating a bullet after using standard and small base RCBS size dies? I have one of each in 30-06 and 308 and the tightness of the necks when seating a bullet actually deforms them. The neck is so tight even after the expander ball is supposed to have opened the neck back up?